New ideas

posted on July 8th, 2012, 6:58 pm

Does Starfleet usually reward you for losing their ships? Picard almost got court-martialed for that.

Not almost, he DID get court martialed for the loss of the Stargazer, but he was exhonorated from any wrongdoing. I think in times of peace it IS standard procedure for a captain (if he survived) to get court martialed for the loss of the ship. Wartime conditions would likely change that scenario.

posted on July 8th, 2012, 7:34 pm

Well, depending on the circumstances, really.
If he got shot up by an outdated B'rel or (gods forbid) a jemmie bug, in a one on one, they might fail to notice the huge fucking war going on in the background. Especially in the case of a repeat offender.


That said, what ever happened to the loss of Enterprise D?

posted on July 8th, 2012, 8:14 pm

Nothing happened in canon, aside from them giving the guy responsible for its loss command of the Titan and the one who crashed it went with him. Also giving Picard a new ship for Riker to get blown to crap and Troi to crash.

Enterprise got blown up so often, Starfleet probably gave up on normal procedure.

posted on July 8th, 2012, 9:42 pm

Dont know if this is possible, but what about having the ship that picks up those escape pods have to "drop them off" at a shipyard, and a new ship option would appear, a vet ship of that same type that was lost. Basically they are given another command.

Kind of "o your ship got blow to bits, wait here for a few weeks/months till we build you another one.."

Not really a fan of that.

You may not be a fan of it but it makes sense, and has happened several times so far. And as stated by someone else, this is war, ships get lost all the time, buy if you have an experianced crew are you really gonna sit and say, "well we need experianced officers for the war effort, but you seasond crew members lost your ship, so im sorry youll have to sit out the rest of the war'. THAT doent really make much sense.

Sisko lost the Defiant, he got another. Picard lost the Enterprise D, he got command of the E, Kirk blew up the Enterprise, he got the A. It actually makes sense.

As you may recall those captains whom you mention are all main characters in series, do you think they would not get another ship?

While it may be true that ships are lost in war, captains who lose a ship tend to be last in line for a new one unless they are main cast or really have a super-duper-elite status.

Even in DS9 the crew of the Defiant was divided over other assignment till a new ship was available.
Dumping the pods at a yard and then waiting for a new ship to be build is not the way wars are won.

posted on July 8th, 2012, 9:49 pm

I never understood why Riker and Troi got so much flak for the Enterprise D crash. Seemed clear to me that the core breach detonation took out the impulse engines and the planets gravity pulled the saucer in. I fail to see how that is their fault.

The core breach from combat with the bird of prey, however is a bit suspect

posted on July 8th, 2012, 10:03 pm

The film was set up specifically to kill off the Enterprise and put no thought into how to make it believable, meaning there was a good amount of plot-induced stupidity with Riker being the one giving the orders.

The fact that Riker has got it captured by Ferengi or blown to hell almost every time he's left in command doesn't help.

posted on July 8th, 2012, 10:28 pm

Well, given how the aforementioned fiasco at Maxia turned out, I can see why someone would wait till Jean Almighty is off ship till you decide to pull your shit.

Though, if the writers just waited for two years, they could've fed it to the Dominion.

posted on July 8th, 2012, 11:21 pm

The film was set up specifically to kill off the Enterprise and put no thought into how to make it believable, meaning there was a good amount of plot-induced stupidity with Riker being the one giving the orders.

The fact that Riker has got it captured by Ferengi or blown to hell almost every time he's left in command doesn't help.

I never said it was done well, just that it was

posted on July 8th, 2012, 11:27 pm

Yes Andre they were main characters, thats the point! A Vet crew is basically the same thing, they are not your average crew thats why they are getting special treatment. And yes there were other assignments, however this is a game, and you have to follow some kind of gameplay restrictions. Obviously if we were going for more show like realism ships wouldnt be built in 60 seconds either.

posted on July 8th, 2012, 11:52 pm

Yes Andre they were main characters, thats the point! A Vet crew is basically the same thing, they are not your average crew thats why they are getting special treatment. And yes there were other assignments, however this is a game, and you have to follow some kind of gameplay restrictions. Obviously if we were going for more show like realism ships wouldnt be built in 60 seconds either.

Yah, they'd be built in 5 minutes.

The idea of a vet crew getting a new vet ship isn't a good idea. As noted in Bridge Commander, a vet crew was transfered to a ship, the USS Sovereign. (New to them, but by the time they got it, the Enterprise was well known.)
In a log entry, Chief Brex, the Bolian engineer, makes a few notes about the ship:

We returned to Starbase 12 and Admiral Liu informed us that the entire Dauntless drew was being transferred to the Sovereign.

Getting a Sovereign class ship, that's a huge leap for a forth assignment. Only Commander La Forge has had the luxury of tinkering with this design...until now.

The ship itself is wondrous, but...it took me a year and a half to get the Dauntless running the way I wanted. I'm just getting started with the Sovereign

But as the legendary Montgomery Scott once said, 'there's nothing like the impossible to bolster ones miraculous reputation.'

Yes, I copied it word for word. As noted, though the Sovereign is older then the Enterprise, the ship needed some tinkering, as noted later, during shakedown when the ship vibrated badly during warp, the sensors read 'something else' when scanning an asteroid, and the phasers kept missing their targets. It makes sense that while a vet crew gets a new ship, they still need to tinker with it before they can get it to full status.

Another good reference is the movie U-571. While the crew knew how to work a submarine, they needed time to get used to it. It makes sense, right?

posted on July 9th, 2012, 1:15 am

Yes Andre they were main characters, thats the point! A Vet crew is basically the same thing, they are not your average crew thats why they are getting special treatment. And yes there were other assignments, however this is a game, and you have to follow some kind of gameplay restrictions. Obviously if we were going for more show like realism ships wouldnt be built in 60 seconds either.

Hero units and main cast on a TV show are not the same though. The latter tend to have plots protecting them.
During wartime a crew which has lost a ship will be dispersed amongst other crews to replenish losses. The proposal to gain a rank on the rescuing vessel after a slight waiting period best reflects this.

posted on July 9th, 2012, 3:09 am

Destroyer- Quoting a game that isnt canon doesnt really help, and I think its safe to say that even though a new ship may have "bugs" an experianced crew that has worked with the systems would be able to get it up to snuff faster then a green crew. And using U571 is a terrible example, as they went to a sub built by a different country and it was all in german with a totally foreign design. That would be like a federation crew going onto a klingon ship and trying to figure out how to fly it as opposed to going on a different federation ship and pretty much already knowing how the thing works.

Andre- Again this is a game and basically the game equivalent of having a "main cast" type crew is a vetted ship. And if you have a crew that works together well, why would you break them up, especially during war? Your better off giving them another ship and keeping them together as they are already a cohesive force that knows how to work well together, knows each others strengths and weaknesses.

And to clear something up, I never said I was for or against the whole idea of saving your vet ship crew, I just proposed and idea as to how to make it work in game. Obviously certain things have to be ignored for gameplay sake, but to me it makes more sense to have the crew deliverd to a starbase rather then vet a ship that picked them up. Or maybe give both options, pick up the crew and have an immediate option to gain a rank or return them to the shipyard to get a new ship.

posted on July 9th, 2012, 6:53 am

I wouldn't say BC is non-canon, but the quote still stands. And it wasn't just 'bugs', it was also the ships main systems.

I do admit, using U-571 was probably a bad example. I was thinking something else at the time. Still, in FO, you shouldn't get a vet ship if you get a pod with a vet crew, you should get a new, fresh ship, with the old crew sent in for R&R and psychotherapy. (if needed)

Now, lets drop the subject about vet ships and focus on the other items.

Anyone?

posted on July 9th, 2012, 3:42 pm

Yes, let's get back to the other stuff. Stuff like Customizable Cloaking Effects, which sounds decent.

I wouldn't say BC is non-canon, but the quote still stands. And it wasn't just 'bugs', it was also the ships main systems.

I would, as everything else that isn't a TV series or movie. BC is only canon to its own universe, the universe it apparently shares with SFC3.

posted on July 10th, 2012, 12:21 am

I would, as everything else that isn't a TV series or movie. BC is only canon to its own universe, the universe it apparently shares with SFC3.

Good point.

Now, is there anything anyone else wanted to discuss?