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posted on December 8th, 2010, 6:39 pm

a civilian avatar could have a stronger warpin, since they will be relying on starfleet's help and sending distress calls a lot.

maybe they could have no access to big yard. only to a better sfc. and in the lower yard they can build remore with chassis 2 and their supports are better. it would be a huge departure but interesting.

That would be interesting. Take out the Intrepid and Akira at the least and maybe the monsoon. So it would be like this...

Saber
Monsoon?
Nova
Norway
Canaveral
Remoore

posted on December 8th, 2010, 6:41 pm

Civilians seem to have access to older designs like the Miranda and Oberth, ones that Starfleet doesn't have any use for.

posted on December 8th, 2010, 6:48 pm

Civilians seem to have access to older designs like the Miranda and Oberth, ones that Starfleet doesn't have any use for.

I agree with this.

Miranda spam FTW

posted on December 8th, 2010, 6:55 pm

lol why would civilians build outdated classes? they may get more as warpin as civilians may have some old ships buzzing around that would prioritise responding to civilian distress calls (hey tribes exist in the feddies even lol)

they wouldnt build new outdated classes tho. they would build stuff like the canav.

i think they should have access to the intrep but not the akira. the intrep was kinda sciene-cy it had that massive sensor array and new tech etc. maybe it could have a support refit for this avatar to get more specials lol.

they shouldnt get monsoon as it is a starfleet intelligence ship i believe.

posted on December 8th, 2010, 6:59 pm

Because they don't build them, they just teleport to another yard 1 piece at a time.

posted on December 8th, 2010, 6:59 pm

Well, but how do they fight? I see a point in having better ressouce-management, gathing more per time and such things, but they wouldnt have def-platforms, they wouldnt have battledships and so on. They might be good in early game but... thats it.

The idea is interesting but I dont have a clue how to balance this. They must get a HUGE advantage elsewhere to stay en par with the other fractions. And spamming ships in order to send them off to death is more like klingons, but NOT for civ-fed avatar.

But they could do something else... like:
- We are civs and buy tech - so our freighters now have cloaking devices, as well as our mining stations.
- We are civs and dev like civs - the military sections might have huge weapon systems, but we have EVERYTHING else - like mass production of new armor-types, experimental shields AND a deep space station - EAT THAT!
- We may not have the Akikra, the Souvereign and we might not even have the starfleet command, but we HAVE a special trading station that enables us to call freelancers AND
- No souvie, no fighter carrier, no real batleship you think? Well, we have one... the Enigma-class (First that came to my mind) This is a deep space exploration vessel with MANY abilities, but we only have this... and the Excel Mk. II and this... larger support ship... no defiant :-(
- Well, we also have no turrets, but we dont need them, because we can send runabouts from our Deep Space station like fighters to defend our expansions. Those runabouts have real cool suppressive fire abilities and together with the Sabre-class, we can hold the line.


Is this balanced?

posted on December 8th, 2010, 7:07 pm

well they get better warpin. starfleet would send ships to help its civilians. they would rely on this as they cant make their own fighting ships. thats how they would get their battle ships.

they would have less powerful turrets, but still some.

posted on December 8th, 2010, 7:13 pm

Hmm, I'd like tosee a more drastical difference. Not just "Here some stats more and the a unit less and here you have a little ice-cream"...

It would be cool, if the avatars would really seperate from each others. I think of it this way:

Risner:
Better stats on battleships, more battleships, offensive potential, defends through multi-layer ability-combination of ships that break even a cube apart.

I think, Risner already got that quite well.

Mayson:
Turlte-player. Slow expansion, more and better turrets, special def-stations, uses more small ships that cover each other while the def-stations do the hammer-time.

Mayson also got this quite good. Still I feel, they are quite similar. A stronger seperation between avatars might be better for the gameplay - but this would need a HUGE re-design, a HUGE amount of balancing and so on...

So... dont know what to say :-/

posted on December 8th, 2010, 9:32 pm

Well one way to balance this would be to give them 15 warp in slots, and I know everyone will hate me for this but maybe they could get four ships for their warp in or maybe when a warp in is destroyed they don't lose supplies for it

posted on December 9th, 2010, 1:07 am

lol why would civilians build outdated classes?
they wouldnt build new outdated classes tho. they would build stuff like the canav.

  Because as ships and chassis are no longer used by the military branch they can be sold 'out' to other areas for different purposes.

  Real life example:

  After WWII the United States and Russia had tens of thousands of soon-to-be out of date medium tanks.  The T-34 and the M4 Sherman variants were the two most mass produced Tanks of the war, but were becoming obsolete due to the fact that the MBT (Main Battle Tank) was becoming the better choice as an all-around armored vehicle.
  They quickly began to sell off all of these machines to "emerging powers" and other countries that could not develop their own modern fighting equipment.  Some types of vehicles were no longer built, but some countries also chose to buy the equipment and the know-how to produce their own versions of those designs.


    A smaller yet FAR more successful example of that is the AK-47.  It was quickly contracted out to many countries and companies in other places besides the USSR so that they could be manufactured there.


  Just cause it's old doesn't mean it disappears .

posted on December 9th, 2010, 2:01 am

and just because its old doesn't mean its bad

posted on December 9th, 2010, 2:45 pm

hey boggz, you quoted my post, misunderstood it, then gave two examples that support my point lol.

u done half my job for me.

I said civilians wont BUILD their own ships, u gave examples of them buying them second hand. Your examples are accurate, civilians may buy second hand ships yes, but not build their own.

Starfleet may sell mirandas to the civilians and these civilian ships would respond via warpin as they are more likely to help their civilian friends.

posted on December 9th, 2010, 6:05 pm

Maybe the Civilian avatar should not get a ship yard building on the buying obsolete designs idea. instead it is simply a repair/refit yard that calls ships in out of the mothball fleet the resource cost and the build time would be the resupplying and rearming the ship before it warps in. So all of there military vessels would warp in but only the ones from SFC would come instantly because they in active Starfleet service.

This could also allow the Civilian avatar to have some of the ships specific to federation member worlds because the civilians are buying any ship anyone is willing to sell such as Vulcan and Andriana vessels and others could make an appearance. Along with a lot of the older designs people want to see like the Connie and the Miranda and other TMP and Early TNG vessels.

posted on December 9th, 2010, 6:05 pm

Re-reading Myles ... you don't say anything about it.  You say they "may" get some old ones in warpin and "may" have some old ships 'buzzing' around, but go on to give examples of other current ships that are centered around science and exploration (Intrep and Canav).


  What I said didn't support you because what you said wasn't what I said and what she said he said- wait ... why am I even bothering to argue with you?  Damnit!  

posted on December 9th, 2010, 8:56 pm

Re-reading Myles ... you don't say anything about it.  You say they "may" get some old ones in warpin and "may" have some old ships 'buzzing' around, but go on to give examples of other current ships that are centered around science and exploration (Intrep and Canav).


  What I said didn't support you because what you said wasn't what I said and what she said he said- wait ... why am I even bothering to argue with you?  Damnit!  

there is no need to reread my post since you quoted the exact part of it that is relevant

i said they wouldnt build outdated ship classes.

in the very next sentence i said they may have them in warpin. which you paraphrased in your last post. so obviously i did say something about it  i love when people quote the exact bits of my post i need less typing, less RSI

i think the civilian avatar should get some older designs, but in warpin, not in a yard. as they are civilian they would probably rely on warpin a lot more. so thats why i suggested them having no eraudi yard but having a better warpin support.