Multi targeting phaser idea

posted on January 18th, 2012, 3:00 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by "true multitargeting" 

For "firing arc problem", I presume it's the same one as we discussed last time, where you can't give one hardpoint a limited forward and back arc, and instead have to use two. That feature has not been added so far

True multitargeting is getting the area cannon to do what it should withouth the randome firing, early fireing and being able to shoot at planets which it wont currently do. And yes the arc proble is the same one of getting the arc limter comand to pay attention to hp oriantation and not where the bow of the ship or station is.

The issue with multi-targeting is one of practicality; generally, it's better to concentrate firepower on a single target and eliminate it than it is to spread that same firepower around, as there are no real incremental decreases in combat capability to aim for. Outside of a handful of special weapons, there's simply no need for multi-targeting at all. Case in point: who the hell builds a beam sphere?

There are plenty of ships that could benefit from multi targeting if You are actually seting up their gun loads close to cannon. Any moddern starship form the FO races for exple would be able to do that fith no loss of firepower. Large stations like DS9 practiclly beg for it. Ant then their are super massive ships like Executor and Viscount from Star Wars. They are as long as the average map is wide; 19km and 17 km respectively. They would definetly need that ability.

posted on January 18th, 2012, 3:47 pm

Now I'm not sure what you mean by "random firing" or "early firing"  . Yup, Planets are a special case with a lot of things. You don't have to make multi-targeting weapons with the areacannon or areamissile if you don't want of course

As for hardpoints, you most definitely can give arcs to rotated hardpoints (aka, a weapon that only fires perpendicular to the craft): you just can't give multiple arcs to a single hardpoint

posted on January 18th, 2012, 10:32 pm

As for hardpoints, you most definitely can give arcs to rotated hardpoints (aka, a weapon that only fires perpendicular to the craft): you just can't give multiple arcs to a single hardpoint

Why aren't the weapon hardpoints like that to begin with? I think it would make more sense for the weapon hardpoints to be facing out in a 12, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 o'clock postion (or whatever layout looks best on the ship) for 360 degree coverage?...Well, at least for federation ships, that is.

posted on January 18th, 2012, 10:53 pm

Why would it be done like that? It's not Bridge Commander.

posted on January 19th, 2012, 1:57 am

That's of course up to the modder to have all those hardpoints face whatever direction you want - but of course, most Federation ships have 360 coverage, as those phaser arrays aren't really limited in what direction they can "point" one presumes. 

posted on January 19th, 2012, 4:59 am

Why would it be done like that? It's not Bridge Commander.

Because it would look more realistic that way, not to mention it would open up better looking extra/multi weapon options. If every HP had it's own sector and limited firing arc, it would eliminate those horrible looking moments where a phaser in the 6 oclock position fires on a target that's in the 11 oclock position.

posted on January 19th, 2012, 5:32 am

If every HP had it's own sector and limited firing arc, it would eliminate those horrible looking moments where a phaser in the 6 oclock position fires on a target that's in the 11 oclock position.

And straight through a warp nacelle or ship saucer.

posted on January 19th, 2012, 2:22 pm

But isn't that just complaining about minor cosmetics?
What useful purpose would that feature net?

posted on January 19th, 2012, 3:24 pm

And straight through a warp nacelle or ship saucer.

Exactly! That is a much better example of what I'm talking about.

But isn't that just complaining about minor cosmetics?
What useful purpose would that feature net?

Cosmetics make up for alot. It may not seem like much, but in the bigger picture it makes for a much better playing experience. Better textures, sprites, ship pathing, all come together to make a more enjoyable game. The FO team not only took the gameplay of armada 2 to a whole new level, but they also made it into a visual masterpiece....I think facing the weapon Hps out and making sectors with corresponding sectors would add to not only the beauty of the game, but also the "realism" too.

posted on January 19th, 2012, 3:45 pm

How does it look more realistic when having seperate weapons with one HP and one weapon with multiple HP's looks exactly the same?

Going through parts of the ship is just because FO hardpoints suck.

posted on January 19th, 2012, 10:02 pm

Now I'm not sure what you mean by "random firing" or "early firing"  . Yup, Planets are a special case with a lot of things. You don't have to make multi-targeting weapons with the areacannon or areamissile if you don't want of course

As for hardpoints, you most definitely can give arcs to rotated hardpoints (aka, a weapon that only fires perpendicular to the craft): you just can't give multiple arcs to a single hardpoint

Random firing and early firing is that an areacannon weapons starts to fire when a target enters sensor range, not weapons range. It  also fires extra shots event when their are no extra targets to engage. Thoughs shots jost go off in some random direction.

Unless somthing has changed in FO the arc restriction command does not take HP rotation into account. It always centers up on 00 mark 0 for the ship, not the HP. Thats what needs changed.

Why aren't the weapon hardpoints like that to begin with? I think it would make more sense for the weapon hardpoints to be facing out in a 12, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 10 o'clock postion (or whatever layout looks best on the ship) for 360 degree coverage?...Well, at least for federation ships, that is.

Because doing that kind of HP takes time and can be very boring. Trust my I know from personal experiance.

How does it look more realistic when having seperate weapons with one HP and one weapon with multiple HP's looks exactly the same?

Going through parts of the ship is just because FO hardpoints suck.

Its not having multiples fire from the same HP; its having weapons like the big arrays on a Galaxy or Soverign be able to engage mor then one target at the same time. Or a ship like Intrepid take different atgetds down the right and left sides. The dorsal phaser array on a Galaxy has 400 seperate phaser emmiters in it. It should be able to shoot at at least 2 or 3 targets at the same time. You also have to consider that without multi target wapons super large ships and stations will still only shoot 1 thing at a time. The weapons at one end of and ISD should be able to engage a different target then the guns at the other end or other sid for that matter.

posted on January 19th, 2012, 10:54 pm

That was to JR_109. I was just questioning how rotating hardpoints (the talk of 'each HP had it's own sector and limited firing arc' sounds like 'multiple weapons that only have 1 hardpoint and a limited arc' like a Bridge Commander ship) makes weaponsfire look more realistic.

I usually tend to support multi-targetting, though partly because most weapons are never used due to lack of movement.

posted on January 19th, 2012, 10:58 pm

Ah yes, the discrepancy between a target entering sensor range and weapons range is unfortunately a problem with many Armada weapons - the AreaCannon just shows a visual when it attempts to fire, while many weapons often do not (instead they only show issues with specialweaponsenergy. I just tested now, but the AreaMissile does not have any of the AreaCannon's problems and also will target Planets, and not fire off extra shots, etc

Rotating the hardpoint correctly has always accounted for the arcs, even in A1, it's just usually pretty difficult to rotate those hardpoints correctly for most people . A good example of correctly rotated hardpoints (and thus sideways firing arcs) are some of TUN's old A2 Sigma vessels - this hasn't changed at all from Armada to Fleet Ops

posted on January 19th, 2012, 11:36 pm

That was to JR_109. I was just questioning how rotating hardpoints (the talk of 'each HP had it's own sector and limited firing arc' sounds like 'multiple weapons that only have 1 hardpoint and a limited arc' like a Bridge Commander ship) makes weaponsfire look more realistic.

I usually tend to support multi-targetting, though partly because most weapons are never used due to lack of movement.

I think JR_109 was suggesting every HP of the same weapon has a firing arc that is mutually exclusive with over firing arcs of the same weapon on that ship. In reality they would be different weapons, but the firing arc would be spilt up over several hard points so it would look visually more impressive and every hardpoint would look like it was suppsoed to fire from there.

posted on January 19th, 2012, 11:46 pm

As in a seperate odf entry for each hardpoint with a seperate, overlapping firing arc? Like Bridge Commander.