Martok Additions
Post ideas and suggestions on new features or improvements here.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 3:11 pm
Klingon Avatars:
When comparing the two Klingon Avatars it becomes clear that Martok is clearly the lesser of the two.
The Luspet and Sus'a are impressive vessels and the mild increase in defence is nice, but it simply does not stand up to the photon torpedo's on the B'rel, K'vort and increased offensive power for TaQ'roja.
Between the two Martok is the defensive minded avatar, but with a race which has units which in general do not poses large defensive qualities this leaves the avatar rather vulnerable.
To counter this i propose to add an escort type vessel:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061020022950/www.furryconflict.com/tech/technopedia/klingon/starfleet/klalath.html
It would also make sense to replace ageing designs with more up to date vessels. Therefore i propose to replace the K'beajQ with a smaller less capable Vorcha variant which would be available early in the game:
http://web.archive.org/web/200610200230 ... chegh.html
Last, but not least it can be taken into consideration to increase the defensive strength of the Klingon defensive structures.
I hope you folks find these suggestions worthwhile.
TaQ'roja
Gives access to two new units
* Veqlaragh class
* Charg’H class
Gives access to the following benefits
* Equipped B'rel and K'Vort Class Vessels with Photon Torpedoes and increased the Offensive Value of B'rel, K'Vort and Sang' Class vessels by 2. The B'rel also yields additional supplies during battle.
* Reduced construction costs for Topmey class vessels by 20 percent.
* Replaced Torpedo Drone weapons by Heavy Disruptor weapons.
Chancellor Martok
Gives access to two new units
* LuSpet class
* SuS'a' class
Gives access to the following benefits
* Increased Defensive Value for all Imperial Yard vessels.
* Reduced the construction costs for Field Yard, Battle Yard and Imperial Yard by 30 percent and reduces the supply costs of Field Yard expansions by half.
* Increased crew boarding strength for Vor'cha, Vutpa', LuSpet and Negh'var class vessels.
When comparing the two Klingon Avatars it becomes clear that Martok is clearly the lesser of the two.
The Luspet and Sus'a are impressive vessels and the mild increase in defence is nice, but it simply does not stand up to the photon torpedo's on the B'rel, K'vort and increased offensive power for TaQ'roja.
Between the two Martok is the defensive minded avatar, but with a race which has units which in general do not poses large defensive qualities this leaves the avatar rather vulnerable.
To counter this i propose to add an escort type vessel:
http://web.archive.org/web/20061020022950/www.furryconflict.com/tech/technopedia/klingon/starfleet/klalath.html
It would also make sense to replace ageing designs with more up to date vessels. Therefore i propose to replace the K'beajQ with a smaller less capable Vorcha variant which would be available early in the game:
http://web.archive.org/web/200610200230 ... chegh.html
Last, but not least it can be taken into consideration to increase the defensive strength of the Klingon defensive structures.
I hope you folks find these suggestions worthwhile.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 3:18 pm
Andre27 wrote:It would also make sense to replace ageing designs with more up to date vessels. Therefore i propose to replace the K'beajQ with a smaller less capable Vorcha variant which would be available early in the game:
Klingon Fleet: Qu'Chegh Class Cruiser
The K'beajQ is an up-to-date vessel, a replacement for the K't'inga. Much younger than many (if not all) the other Klingon ships.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 3:19 pm
martok's boosts aren't in the field yard vessels.
he is the battle yard avatar.
thats why he gets cheaper yards. so he can tech faster. relying less on field yard stuff.
also his bops are sometimes better than taqroja's, they are pulse armed, making them far nicer at harassment.
also he is the borg killer avatar, he gets the lovely susa and cheaper tech up to the sang.
i think martok does fine.
he is the battle yard avatar.
thats why he gets cheaper yards. so he can tech faster. relying less on field yard stuff.
also his bops are sometimes better than taqroja's, they are pulse armed, making them far nicer at harassment.
also he is the borg killer avatar, he gets the lovely susa and cheaper tech up to the sang.
i think martok does fine.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 3:33 pm
Tyler wrote:The K'beajQ is an up-to-date vessel, a replacement for the K't'inga. Much younger than many (if not all) the other Klingon ships.
It looks like it has been hauled off a junk yard. An outdated design and one which should be updated.
Myles wrote:also his bops are sometimes better than taqroja's, they are pulse armed, making them far nicer at harassment.
also he is the borg killer avatar, he gets the lovely susa and cheaper tech up to the sang.
i think martok does fine.
I have to disagree. Klingon against Klingon in early game martok get owned.
The duras BoP have the same pulses and can wreck havok against early/mid-game cruisers.
End game the two fractions get closer, but usually martok will not survive until late game.
Especially the escort vessel will give martok a bot of a fighting chance against long range/hit and run tactics employed by the Romulans and early Federation.
The replacement for the K'beajQ will give martok some staying power before the arrival of the Vorcha.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 3:39 pm
It looks like that because it's a Klingon ship, they all look like scrap by design. It's a brand new ship that's unlikely to be replaced or 'updated'. It simply doesn't need it.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 3:57 pm
Tyler wrote:It looks like that because it's a Klingon ship, they all look like scrap by design. It's a brand new ship that's unlikely to be replaced or 'updated'. It simply doesn't need it.
Let's agree we disagree on this one.
How about the proposed escort class.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 4:07 pm
Yes, before we end up with 4 pages of repeated arguments...
Looks like an interesting 'younger brother' to the Vor'cha. Seems to have a better defense than offense, going by the numbers.
Looks like an interesting 'younger brother' to the Vor'cha. Seems to have a better defense than offense, going by the numbers.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 4:12 pm
Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on August 17th, 2010, 4:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don't think Martok needs any more than two extra ships.
I disagree that Martok is weaker than Taq'Roja, Martok is better, but he is indeed at a disadvantage in a 1v1, and I hope that when these avatars are redone so that they are honorable vs. dishonorable tactics they will be more balanced.
Taq's heavy disruptor isn't all that much of an advantage over the drones, if you do need to get to battle yard (if facing Dominion T15, field yard will kill you) you will be out of luck as Taq, and the Veqlaragh is only good for maybe landing those last few vital hits on a fleeing small ship or using its engine disabler (which has a ridiculous reload time IIRC.) Charghs are good but really why build them since Vor'chas counter short ranged better and aren't countered as much by long (and of course Vor'cha special is more useful if you get three or more on one target.) Her miner cost advantage is negated by the higher field yard cost unless you're building them to replace lost ones, but if you lost that many for the 20% to be big then you're probably already screwed anyways. Extra B'rel supplies sucks because it will likely waste them with it's supply roulette special and B'rels die too quickly to rank up very much unless you are making raids on an opponent who has absolutely no defense.
Martok's LuSpet is useless, and boarding isn't something you get to take advantage of a whole lot, and you don't get to use imperial yard vessels much, but his cost reduction on the yards make him a great choice and Sus'a is a nice cheap little torpedo ship.
I disagree that Martok is weaker than Taq'Roja, Martok is better, but he is indeed at a disadvantage in a 1v1, and I hope that when these avatars are redone so that they are honorable vs. dishonorable tactics they will be more balanced.
Taq's heavy disruptor isn't all that much of an advantage over the drones, if you do need to get to battle yard (if facing Dominion T15, field yard will kill you) you will be out of luck as Taq, and the Veqlaragh is only good for maybe landing those last few vital hits on a fleeing small ship or using its engine disabler (which has a ridiculous reload time IIRC.) Charghs are good but really why build them since Vor'chas counter short ranged better and aren't countered as much by long (and of course Vor'cha special is more useful if you get three or more on one target.) Her miner cost advantage is negated by the higher field yard cost unless you're building them to replace lost ones, but if you lost that many for the 20% to be big then you're probably already screwed anyways. Extra B'rel supplies sucks because it will likely waste them with it's supply roulette special and B'rels die too quickly to rank up very much unless you are making raids on an opponent who has absolutely no defense.
Martok's LuSpet is useless, and boarding isn't something you get to take advantage of a whole lot, and you don't get to use imperial yard vessels much, but his cost reduction on the yards make him a great choice and Sus'a is a nice cheap little torpedo ship.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 4:18 pm
The photon Torps on the B'rel and Kvort are not necessarily BETTER, they're just different. They change the role of those two ships a bit. In fact there are MANY situations where the Martok versions are preferable.
Martok is actually the better Avatar right now in my opinion. He's better suited to fight Borg and he can tech MUCH more rapidly than Taq due to his low yard cost.
Martok is actually the better Avatar right now in my opinion. He's better suited to fight Borg and he can tech MUCH more rapidly than Taq due to his low yard cost.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 4:21 pm
So Taq'Roja BoPs have less powerful pulses?
posted on August 17th, 2010, 5:00 pm
the point i made about martok's bop pulses is this:
martok's bop and taq's bop do similar amounts of base dps, taq's does slightly more.
but if u split that into its components, martok's bop does 100% of its damage via pulses that never miss and are suited for killing small ships, like rom/fed/klink miners.
taq's bop does around half of its dps via pulses and the other half via torps. so against small ships martok's bop is actually not as useful as taq's as some of her torps miss.
now against bigger ships martok's bop is at the disadvantage, as his pulses do reduced damage against large ships. but martok has nicer late game.
martok's bop are actually really good.
as for which avatar i prefer, its really a choice of playstyle. if u like loads of field yard ships then go taq. if u like fast tech then go martok.
taq also has the awesome combat tractor beam, which is amazing. martok is your usual choice to smite the borg due to susa and fast tech to sang, but the chargh and veq make the borg cry as they cant escape and regen.
martok's bop and taq's bop do similar amounts of base dps, taq's does slightly more.
but if u split that into its components, martok's bop does 100% of its damage via pulses that never miss and are suited for killing small ships, like rom/fed/klink miners.
taq's bop does around half of its dps via pulses and the other half via torps. so against small ships martok's bop is actually not as useful as taq's as some of her torps miss.
now against bigger ships martok's bop is at the disadvantage, as his pulses do reduced damage against large ships. but martok has nicer late game.
martok's bop are actually really good.
as for which avatar i prefer, its really a choice of playstyle. if u like loads of field yard ships then go taq. if u like fast tech then go martok.
taq also has the awesome combat tractor beam, which is amazing. martok is your usual choice to smite the borg due to susa and fast tech to sang, but the chargh and veq make the borg cry as they cant escape and regen.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 5:37 pm
Now that's what i like, a real discussion about the strength and weaknesses of each avatar.
I've already made my opinion clear that i believe Martok needs a boost or otherwise i would not have made this topic.
Much of the strengths/weaknesses of an avatar depend on whom they are facing. However since the Klingons, in general, have ships with high offence and low defence the avatar which is based upon defence is on the downside of the hill from the start.
This is why I've proposed some additional, defence oriented ships.
One of martok his special ships, the LuSpet has quite decent stats, but these are largely counteracted by the Autonomous Defense AI. I believe that martok needs the boost from at least one of the vessels i proposed in order to survive.
Off course if someone ere believes the LuSpet is worth building i'd like to hear their opinion as well.
I've already made my opinion clear that i believe Martok needs a boost or otherwise i would not have made this topic.
Much of the strengths/weaknesses of an avatar depend on whom they are facing. However since the Klingons, in general, have ships with high offence and low defence the avatar which is based upon defence is on the downside of the hill from the start.
This is why I've proposed some additional, defence oriented ships.
One of martok his special ships, the LuSpet has quite decent stats, but these are largely counteracted by the Autonomous Defense AI. I believe that martok needs the boost from at least one of the vessels i proposed in order to survive.
Off course if someone ere believes the LuSpet is worth building i'd like to hear their opinion as well.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 5:44 pm
well by the time you get the luspet you would have been fielding a fleet which had no adai ships. your enemy wouldnt have many support ships. therefore they wouldnt counter the luspet that badly. if your fleet is comprised only of luspets then expect to be countered easily lol.
for the defence avatar martok's bop are rather excellent at harassing. against fed/rom/klink miners martok's bop do much better as they dont miss at all. against dominion miners they are equal as torps miss 20% and pulses do 20% less damage. against borg you shouldnt have made bop lol.
martok's strengths are fast tech to larger ships.
a common slower strat as martok is vorcha spam, its a good strat. not terribly viable in 1v1, but in team games it is more useful. taq cant fast tech to battle yard, it just costs her too much. her advantage is getting out a fleet really fast, cheaper miners and boosts in the field yard.
for the defence avatar martok's bop are rather excellent at harassing. against fed/rom/klink miners martok's bop do much better as they dont miss at all. against dominion miners they are equal as torps miss 20% and pulses do 20% less damage. against borg you shouldnt have made bop lol.
martok's strengths are fast tech to larger ships.
a common slower strat as martok is vorcha spam, its a good strat. not terribly viable in 1v1, but in team games it is more useful. taq cant fast tech to battle yard, it just costs her too much. her advantage is getting out a fleet really fast, cheaper miners and boosts in the field yard.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 6:04 pm
Taq'Roja doesn't really get out a fleet faster, as her yard is more expensive. Martok is actually better at getting lots of small ships since he can expand his field yard for half the supply and make a new one at 30% off. This means that in the early game Martok is better able to do BoP spam. Right now the only possible reason I would play Taq'Roja is if I plan on using K'Vorts in the late game (rare unless I'm doing a BoP spam) or do a K'Tinga rush (one of the riskiest strategies there is), Martok is better for most situations.
posted on August 17th, 2010, 6:18 pm
bop spam is more expensive as u need to buy another field yard and extend that with bop extension.
martok's bops dont last into late game as mainline vessels, they are too pulse heavy.
taqroja's strong field yard vessels mean that you are more likely to make a fleet of field yard vessels. while as martok you will make fewer of them.
in the early game taqroja will get out a lot of ships, while martok will most likely tech, as his tech is easier.
kvorts are very good late game for both avatars, but mainly for harassment.
and kitinga rush is plain silly, i've never seen a game where it worked.
martok's bops dont last into late game as mainline vessels, they are too pulse heavy.
taqroja's strong field yard vessels mean that you are more likely to make a fleet of field yard vessels. while as martok you will make fewer of them.
in the early game taqroja will get out a lot of ships, while martok will most likely tech, as his tech is easier.
kvorts are very good late game for both avatars, but mainly for harassment.
and kitinga rush is plain silly, i've never seen a game where it worked.
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