Map Request + edits to prestart settings
1, 2
posted on October 14th, 2010, 8:27 pm
I was basically wondering what the largest scale of map is? And wanting to play a map that is largest as possible.
Also, I'll just point it out now... this is mostly in the interest of AI games that might be made more time consuming...
I looked through the guide, and found a spot that said 50, 000 x 50 000, anything larger would crash?
If so, this is fine. Is it possible to have a 50 x 50 for a future version? I realize many do not enjoy this type of map, especially considering all the online games and the preference of smaller maps... but I rather enjoy the larger maps against the AI.
If it is possible to go larger... I would love testing out something that is like 100 - 200 k, but obviously, don't want there to be any crashing. But 50 000 is fine if that is what the game allows.
If others like an idea of this map this large please post comments about what you would like to see specifically, I'll list just a couple of why I like large maps, or what maybe could be done with them:
- Like being fully teched up, Empire vs Empire with economy and military fully prepared (no option of early raids) for first engagement. (ie. resources being tanked up with so many moons going you have 30 000 easily in di and tri, yet as the map is so large... you need the multiple large fleets to send everywhere. Resources are no longer a hindrance, instead, you need to manage 9 full fleets throughout the board as both sides create multiple bases and shipyards everywhere, and there is no hurry about getting that first ship out, - when the first fleets engage, they will be beasts of a fleet
)
- make maps more complex, perhaps the large 50 000 map is a group of four mini maps with varying styles, that create one large map *assymetrical
- perhaps there is an area of the map roughly 2000 x 3000 that splits the map somehow yet is entirely nebula. Creating a field where there is no empty space, its just an area jam packed of all sort of nebula that you have to enter for some reason or another. Or alternatively, a good section of the map, perhaps a rift in the center where there is absolutely nothing for 4000 X 6000, yet the outskirts littered with moons and nebula asteroids etc that wind and twist everywhere.
- hunting down the remnants of the AI after victory (often need to build sensor relays throughout to find that lone missing vessel hiding)
- I think it creates a better experience of what it would be like, space is vast... things would be time consuming. You actually get more nervous when you see this entire area of space filled up with hundreds of dots from enemy units, well like not nervous, but just knowing that you have to systematically take all of them out and all. The tension of a long battle due to immense size. Larger fleets, numerous expansions, etc.
So, I like it, and maybe its a map for when you have a day off work... and you really just want to go up against multiple AI Borg Merciless with unlimited resources but on harder settings with huge map for the AI to expand on and you have to take out everything.
Also, I was just wondering... could we have as large a map as possible with more than eight starting locations? I know there is a max of 8 starting players or AI opponents, but could there be a map that was so large that we gave it 18 starting points or something *I dunno or 12* and then have it where the player can select who goes where? (With random placement, if you don't know where the enemy is, and it is a large map, takes more places to scout out)
Also, just looking at the prestart settings... could we have it where there is an option to grant certain stations to begin with? Like you start the game with more than just a starbase, construction ships and scouts? I mean, if there is a reason for just that for starters... I understand, but we could maybe have 4 default starting settings, say: Starbase, two mining stations, with 5 destroyers + construction scout etc, or starbase with one mining station and one shipyard, two battleships, + etc, or starbase with one mining station, first research, and shipyard, but no ships, + etc.
Or would it be possible to put that into the pregame setup screen? after all the game factors are selected... maybe a screen that states: Allow additional units/stations of: and then lists the stations with limits. Like you can choose to put in Akiras and Sovereigns, or Warbirds and cubes, but you can't select more than say 1 cube to start, or 5 Akiras and so on. Or can only have up to two initial shipyards to start, can't have 50 shipyards just going in... but just to have the option.
I am mostly wanting this for a good long AI game that would take a long time to play... I am not sure... but I'm guessing the stations might be a problem for beginning with... or no? Would it require a lot with coding? Like having it that each map was set to give each race this that and the other thing... I don't mean to make it tedious in that sense, so if that is a problem... no worries. But if it something that could be offered as an option.. think that might be pretty neat for game play. I read in the threads in places that sort of thing alot, so realize that sort of stuff also needs consideration, just don't have much experience with it myself.
Obviously, since it is AI oriented you can set the difficulty level to what you want... but yeah, if anyone has any other ideas or suggestions, id love to here them also for creating large maps.
Also, I'll just point it out now... this is mostly in the interest of AI games that might be made more time consuming...
I looked through the guide, and found a spot that said 50, 000 x 50 000, anything larger would crash?
If so, this is fine. Is it possible to have a 50 x 50 for a future version? I realize many do not enjoy this type of map, especially considering all the online games and the preference of smaller maps... but I rather enjoy the larger maps against the AI.
If it is possible to go larger... I would love testing out something that is like 100 - 200 k, but obviously, don't want there to be any crashing. But 50 000 is fine if that is what the game allows.
If others like an idea of this map this large please post comments about what you would like to see specifically, I'll list just a couple of why I like large maps, or what maybe could be done with them:
- Like being fully teched up, Empire vs Empire with economy and military fully prepared (no option of early raids) for first engagement. (ie. resources being tanked up with so many moons going you have 30 000 easily in di and tri, yet as the map is so large... you need the multiple large fleets to send everywhere. Resources are no longer a hindrance, instead, you need to manage 9 full fleets throughout the board as both sides create multiple bases and shipyards everywhere, and there is no hurry about getting that first ship out, - when the first fleets engage, they will be beasts of a fleet
)- make maps more complex, perhaps the large 50 000 map is a group of four mini maps with varying styles, that create one large map *assymetrical
- perhaps there is an area of the map roughly 2000 x 3000 that splits the map somehow yet is entirely nebula. Creating a field where there is no empty space, its just an area jam packed of all sort of nebula that you have to enter for some reason or another. Or alternatively, a good section of the map, perhaps a rift in the center where there is absolutely nothing for 4000 X 6000, yet the outskirts littered with moons and nebula asteroids etc that wind and twist everywhere.
- hunting down the remnants of the AI after victory (often need to build sensor relays throughout to find that lone missing vessel hiding)
- I think it creates a better experience of what it would be like, space is vast... things would be time consuming. You actually get more nervous when you see this entire area of space filled up with hundreds of dots from enemy units, well like not nervous, but just knowing that you have to systematically take all of them out and all. The tension of a long battle due to immense size. Larger fleets, numerous expansions, etc.
So, I like it, and maybe its a map for when you have a day off work... and you really just want to go up against multiple AI Borg Merciless with unlimited resources but on harder settings with huge map for the AI to expand on and you have to take out everything.
Also, I was just wondering... could we have as large a map as possible with more than eight starting locations? I know there is a max of 8 starting players or AI opponents, but could there be a map that was so large that we gave it 18 starting points or something *I dunno or 12* and then have it where the player can select who goes where? (With random placement, if you don't know where the enemy is, and it is a large map, takes more places to scout out)
Also, just looking at the prestart settings... could we have it where there is an option to grant certain stations to begin with? Like you start the game with more than just a starbase, construction ships and scouts? I mean, if there is a reason for just that for starters... I understand, but we could maybe have 4 default starting settings, say: Starbase, two mining stations, with 5 destroyers + construction scout etc, or starbase with one mining station and one shipyard, two battleships, + etc, or starbase with one mining station, first research, and shipyard, but no ships, + etc.
Or would it be possible to put that into the pregame setup screen? after all the game factors are selected... maybe a screen that states: Allow additional units/stations of: and then lists the stations with limits. Like you can choose to put in Akiras and Sovereigns, or Warbirds and cubes, but you can't select more than say 1 cube to start, or 5 Akiras and so on. Or can only have up to two initial shipyards to start, can't have 50 shipyards just going in... but just to have the option.
I am mostly wanting this for a good long AI game that would take a long time to play... I am not sure... but I'm guessing the stations might be a problem for beginning with... or no? Would it require a lot with coding? Like having it that each map was set to give each race this that and the other thing... I don't mean to make it tedious in that sense, so if that is a problem... no worries. But if it something that could be offered as an option.. think that might be pretty neat for game play. I read in the threads in places that sort of thing alot, so realize that sort of stuff also needs consideration, just don't have much experience with it myself.
Obviously, since it is AI oriented you can set the difficulty level to what you want... but yeah, if anyone has any other ideas or suggestions, id love to here them also for creating large maps.
posted on October 14th, 2010, 8:30 pm
posted on October 14th, 2010, 8:36 pm
posted on October 14th, 2010, 8:40 pm
posted on October 14th, 2010, 9:07 pm
posted on October 14th, 2010, 9:20 pm
Edit: Can ignore the original post, below is summarized version:
What is largest map possible - Think I saw 50 000 X 50 000, can we get a couple of these in future download?
Curious about multiple starting points, maximum of eight players, but could we have something like 16 starting points for the larger maps, decide on location ourselves, or make random placement more fun, as eight players on random placement doesnt mean each location is automatically filled, you would still need to scout things out with additional starting points.
For pregame setup, can we make it that stations can be added to start with, ie. mining stations prebuilt with freighters, or prebuilt shipyards/reasearch stations etc. Customizable in some way from a tab in the setup screen for what a player wants.
This is spefically for AI games... I know people like small maps, but perhaps some would like larger maps for Ai games that can take longer be more challenging to hunt down, and bigger fleets better resource economy etc. But perhaps is useful for online gameplay as well.
Maps that are large could be combination of smaller maps 12 x 12 but added together to be crazy fun with empty spaces, or nebula filled spaces etc.
Dream Map: 175 000 x 175 000. Crazy Map orientation with wormholes going everywhere and asteroids making navigation a nightmare (admittedly, perhaps only a dream map).
Let me know what you think! Any ideas/revisions or suggestions/constructive criticisms are welcome.
Maybe there are some map makers out there who would enjoy creating a crazy ass large map
What is largest map possible - Think I saw 50 000 X 50 000, can we get a couple of these in future download?
Curious about multiple starting points, maximum of eight players, but could we have something like 16 starting points for the larger maps, decide on location ourselves, or make random placement more fun, as eight players on random placement doesnt mean each location is automatically filled, you would still need to scout things out with additional starting points.
For pregame setup, can we make it that stations can be added to start with, ie. mining stations prebuilt with freighters, or prebuilt shipyards/reasearch stations etc. Customizable in some way from a tab in the setup screen for what a player wants.
This is spefically for AI games... I know people like small maps, but perhaps some would like larger maps for Ai games that can take longer be more challenging to hunt down, and bigger fleets better resource economy etc. But perhaps is useful for online gameplay as well.
Maps that are large could be combination of smaller maps 12 x 12 but added together to be crazy fun with empty spaces, or nebula filled spaces etc.
Dream Map: 175 000 x 175 000. Crazy Map orientation with wormholes going everywhere and asteroids making navigation a nightmare (admittedly, perhaps only a dream map).
Let me know what you think! Any ideas/revisions or suggestions/constructive criticisms are welcome.
Maybe there are some map makers out there who would enjoy creating a crazy ass large map
posted on October 14th, 2010, 9:28 pm
Gamer has some 50k by 50k maps for download (or close to it)
The rest of the stuff regarding premade stations/freighters etc, you can do that just by setting up a map that way right now (set up some derelicts like that ). I'm sure that there will be special game modes later on that accomplish something similar, but I bet they'll have to be on specific maps.
The rest of the stuff regarding premade stations/freighters etc, you can do that just by setting up a map that way right now (set up some derelicts like that
). I'm sure that there will be special game modes later on that accomplish something similar, but I bet they'll have to be on specific maps.posted on October 14th, 2010, 9:44 pm
I agree Boggz, really just wanting this for my own insane AI games
And yes, entirely agree that cloaking factions will have a mad advantage... but I see your point, I don't want to shut out the other races. But as it is AI only, I am content with playing enough games to see whether it is possible. Perhaps just a Hard AI or Normal with edited difficulty for ship cost and time building or something to make it reasonable.
Also, looking for the multiple starting points... this way, you could set it that there is a large map, but with starting points being numerous enough that you still could have games where you start of close just like normal. (but gives the option of a retreat to far away space if things start to look icy, and you have to hunt them down)
I was also thinking it might make it harder to find the original AI starbase, so that you couldn't just cripple the AI that way. Like if there are numerous starting locations, and by the time you send your first fleet there, you notice there is a starbase built in three starting locations, which one is it? ... but this wouldn't work. Because you would just look for the research stations, and then you would know the first location.
Anyways, since it is against AI, hopefully the cloak can be handled as I still like a massive map. And really, in actual space, I think cloaked races would be a real worry. Just think, it takes your fleet say 2 min to reach a certain part of space, and for all you know there could be 40 cloaked warbirds or Vorchas waiting for you and reinforcements are not close by.
The solution to this in my mind, is a steady expansion of guarded locations. A massive economy around your home base, and expanding with shipyards outwards with turret defense. Always only going out so far so that the last shipyard you just built is within reach to send you more fleets, or going back to repair. This way, from my thinking, you would always be building shipyards and defenses and the expansion would always continue. Construction ships will be brought along as you go. It wouldnt necessarily be ship building ship building ship building. Ships will get stranded out far enough, and you can't just have them going back and forth from the original base to enemy base. By mid game, your home base won't be your main focus, you will slowly work towards the AI enemy, rebuilding starbases, building new shipyards and mining stations. Also, you would always need to leave behind ships to guard those outposts and expansions, because the enemy might find a way to circle around or something.
lol but those research stations you built first thing can stay Don't keep building them over and over
And yes, entirely agree that cloaking factions will have a mad advantage... but I see your point, I don't want to shut out the other races. But as it is AI only, I am content with playing enough games to see whether it is possible. Perhaps just a Hard AI or Normal with edited difficulty for ship cost and time building or something to make it reasonable.
Also, looking for the multiple starting points... this way, you could set it that there is a large map, but with starting points being numerous enough that you still could have games where you start of close just like normal. (but gives the option of a retreat to far away space if things start to look icy, and you have to hunt them down)
I was also thinking it might make it harder to find the original AI starbase, so that you couldn't just cripple the AI that way. Like if there are numerous starting locations, and by the time you send your first fleet there, you notice there is a starbase built in three starting locations, which one is it? ... but this wouldn't work. Because you would just look for the research stations, and then you would know the first location.
Anyways, since it is against AI, hopefully the cloak can be handled as I still like a massive map. And really, in actual space, I think cloaked races would be a real worry. Just think, it takes your fleet say 2 min to reach a certain part of space, and for all you know there could be 40 cloaked warbirds or Vorchas waiting for you and reinforcements are not close by.
The solution to this in my mind, is a steady expansion of guarded locations. A massive economy around your home base, and expanding with shipyards outwards with turret defense. Always only going out so far so that the last shipyard you just built is within reach to send you more fleets, or going back to repair. This way, from my thinking, you would always be building shipyards and defenses and the expansion would always continue. Construction ships will be brought along as you go. It wouldnt necessarily be ship building ship building ship building. Ships will get stranded out far enough, and you can't just have them going back and forth from the original base to enemy base. By mid game, your home base won't be your main focus, you will slowly work towards the AI enemy, rebuilding starbases, building new shipyards and mining stations. Also, you would always need to leave behind ships to guard those outposts and expansions, because the enemy might find a way to circle around or something.
lol but those research stations you built first thing can stay
Don't keep building them over and over posted on October 14th, 2010, 9:47 pm
There are 50 K by 50 k maps? How do I get them from gamer or is there a place to download them separately?
I have seen how there are ships that seem to be modded and added that seem to be downloadable... so what would I have to do?
Just find the maps, and download them, and they'd show up on FO or do I need to do something with them to copy them into the game?
I am excited, maybe my big map is closer than I thought yeah
I have seen how there are ships that seem to be modded and added that seem to be downloadable... so what would I have to do?
Just find the maps, and download them, and they'd show up on FO or do I need to do something with them to copy them into the game?
I am excited, maybe my big map is closer than I thought
yeahposted on October 14th, 2010, 9:52 pm
Check the Map Exchange subforum He's got his maps there - though I can't recall which one is the 50k by 50k one off hand.
This one is 35k : Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - New 3.1.2 Map, Winds and Drifts
Here is 40k : Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Large Void (3.12)
This should provide you with everything you need to know how to get started on map construction . Introduction to the Map Editor - The Hitchhiker's Guide to Fleet Operations
You can place downloaded maps in your BZN folder in you Fleet Ops install.
He's got his maps there - though I can't recall which one is the 50k by 50k one off hand.This one is 35k : Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - New 3.1.2 Map, Winds and Drifts
Here is 40k : Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Large Void (3.12)
This should provide you with everything you need to know how to get started on map construction
. Introduction to the Map Editor - The Hitchhiker's Guide to Fleet OperationsYou can place downloaded maps in your BZN folder in you Fleet Ops install.
posted on October 14th, 2010, 10:01 pm
Yeah and Elite Gamer seems to be an AI guy so if you ask nicely I'm sure he'd be willing to make you the biggest map possible
posted on October 14th, 2010, 10:35 pm
Gamer has recently removed his maps from Astro. Something about a major redo and re-release, though I've not heard much other than that .
I have a few 24K's kicking about which might do you well. They are predominantly asymmetric and designed to enhance the feel of traversing real space. Could be fun.
.I have a few 24K's kicking about which might do you well. They are predominantly asymmetric and designed to enhance the feel of traversing real space
. Could be fun.posted on October 15th, 2010, 3:30 am
Thanks for the links and tips,
Only problem is I'm not very tech savvy. So I'd be up for trying any larger map, and yeah, asymm are awesome, generally prefer those.
What/where is my BZN file? I might need a step by step of where it is. Just recently got this PC, and really still more of a Mac user.
But I'll definitely take a look through those links, might hold off asking Gamer for the time, but certainly something to look into soon. Not really even sure what I'm doing with this.
thanks for the help, keep my fingers crossed for possible future maps of larger sized variants
Only problem is I'm not very tech savvy. So I'd be up for trying any larger map, and yeah, asymm are awesome, generally prefer those.
What/where is my BZN file? I might need a step by step of where it is. Just recently got this PC, and really still more of a Mac user.
But I'll definitely take a look through those links, might hold off asking Gamer for the time, but certainly something to look into soon. Not really even sure what I'm doing with this.
thanks for the help, keep my fingers crossed for possible future maps of larger sized variants
posted on October 15th, 2010, 8:00 am
posted on October 16th, 2010, 6:46 pm
As an additional note. From Astro and the forum, map makers follow similar procedures for archiving their maps, so it is as simple as dl'ing the file you want and then extracting to the correct location. The location sometimes varies between each map maker but this will always be stated . It's not too difficult once you've found the Fleet Ops folder .
. It's not too difficult once you've found the Fleet Ops folder .1, 2
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