Manual Speed Control

posted on April 21st, 2011, 6:48 pm

Thought of an idea, don't know if it is worth anything.

At the moment, there is a way to set it that all ships travel at the speed of the slowest ship, keeping the fleet together.

Would it be possible to put in a feature that gives you manual control over individual ship speed? So say I'm the borg, and I have two cubes and one support diamond. Even if they are roughly equal speed, perhaps there could be a set of buttons to manage my diamond so that it has reduced speed. ie quarter, half, three-quarter, and full impulse.

I set my cubes to full impulse, giving them their full speed. But set my diamond at three quarters impulse so that it lags behind, in range but just behind the cubes. I'm not sure if this can be balanced so that it works efficiently so that support vessels and other ships can be kept in good range from other ships.

It might be tough to figure out a first, as all ships have certain speeds, but if the idea were set in place, it would just need to be made familiar to know what speed settings to set for which fleet set ups. But setting qawduj, and other support vessels to remain behind their fleet counterparts manually perhaps would ease ship losses.

Also, when going in for a large scale attack against a main base, perhaps reducing ship speed to 1/4 impulse gives you the illusion that you are slowing down for fleet engagement. And as for gameplay, this might help you keep ships from flying off to quickly, keeping them focussed on the targets you want. Just for the faster ships that end up getting blown apart to quickly.


Not sure if this can be translated in any meaningful way to manual weapons and shields... In some games, you can set your shield strength on all sides of the ship. Perhaps just a simple setting to transfer power to forward shields, or something.

Perhaps in the future, special weapons energy could be used not only for special weapons, but a set up could be installed to give energy boosts to certain subsystems. Let's say you have a ship with 200 special energy, you could have the option of either temporarily, or permanently reducing your special energy to transfer this to other subsystems to make them function better. Giving weapons 110% power for a certain period of time, or increase engine strength. If your ship is damaged, a manual interface to transfer all special weapons energy to engineering to increase repair time. So, say you have special weapons that only ever takes up 60% of special weapons energy, and a second weapon that takes up 90, but you never intend on researching that weapon... for a time, so you can manually set it for the meantime to keep 60% of your special weapons energy, and transfer the rest elsewhere. until you infact decide to add the other weapon.

*currently it is special weapons energy, but trek is full of 'transferring power' moments so allow this special energy to be converted to engine, shield, repair, or what have you extra energy.

or even just add this feature in completely separately. so we have special weapons and leave it at that. but a new feature call special subsystem energy *perhaps a better name i dont know, and this energy can be used to boost certain system output.

i think it would be really neat.

posted on April 21st, 2011, 9:04 pm

No offense, mate, but this was a little too long for me.

I skimmed it and I'll answer your first question.  From the Guide:

Note that to ensure that all selected vessels travel at the same velocity, hold down control while selecting the warships in question and click their destination. All starships will travel at the speed of the slowest selected vessel.

This will ensure that the speed of all ships match that of the slowest.  Also, you can select all your ships, and have them guard a particular ship, and they'll follow it.  That way, you only have to micro one vessel, which is useful for fleet movements and making sure your faster ships don't rush up and die.

posted on April 21st, 2011, 9:13 pm

Short form:

Way to set ships to be quarter, half, 3/4, or full speed. I know about the current way to do it. This would perhaps work if you wanted ships to be slower than other ships specifically, ie support ships. You can set it that they move at a slower speed than their max.

2nd part

Transfer of special weapons energy to improve subsystems. For instance, ship has 200spenergy, the weapon consumes 60%, a weapon that has not yet been researched would consume 90%. Until they research the new weapon, they can transfer this 40% energy to subsystems to say increase weapons, shields, repair rate, or engines by 10%.

There would need to be a new feature for subsystems, that would allow this I'm guessing.

If we weren't to mess around with special weapons energy, perhaps just create an altogether new system that allows energy to be allocated to subsystems to improve them. All those times we heard in trek them say to transfer power to here and there, and maximum output... this would allow that.

sorry, I sometimes forget to look over my posts and make sure they are a healthy reading length

posted on April 21st, 2011, 9:17 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong.. but I think this would reduce the amount of micro you would need to do. Instead of microing your support ships all the time to keep them at a distance, when you build a ship, select it before it goes to battle, set it to 1/2 or 3/4 impulse/speed, and then throughout everything, if you set orders by the fleet, then it will just automatically go slower.

You might still need to watch it, but you wouldnt constantly have to correct its course or destination, it would automatically go slower.

[Tyler]

posted on April 21st, 2011, 9:19 pm

Last edited by Tyler on April 21st, 2011, 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It would also be easier to pick off in an ambush, with the fleet split up.

posted on April 21st, 2011, 9:27 pm

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. It would be harder to pick them off? Unless you mean about decloaking on a fleet. But if you set a ship to move slower than the others, then the rest of the fleet would walk into the ambush first, you would actually easily be able to retreat any support ships. -I'm not sure I know what you mean. The fleet would be split up... by you, on purpose. Unless you mean like coming out of a nebula, or from a completely different direction. But ambush is an ambush... and if it works, you catch them off guard anyways. This way, at least for a purposeful attack, you get strong ships arriving first, and support ships keeping nearby but out of range, by orders, not by micro.

I think I may have an easier way. Create a 'follow' button so to speak. Similar to the guard button, where a ship tags a long. You could order a support vessel, or any ship you want to reach something last. By pressing the button for certain ships in a fleet, they make sure to let all other ships go first, but still stick by close enough to keep them in range for using special weapons.

posted on April 21st, 2011, 9:34 pm

I'm not sure if I understand what you mean. It would be harder to pick them off? Unless you mean about decloaking on a fleet. But if you set a ship to move slower than the others, then the rest of the fleet would walk into the ambush first, you would actually easily be able to retreat any support ships. -I'm not sure I know what you mean. The fleet would be split up... by you, on purpose. Unless you mean like coming out of a nebula, or from a completely different direction. But ambush is an ambush... and if it works, you catch them off guard anyways. This way, at least for a purposeful attack, you get strong ships arriving first, and support ships keeping nearby but out of range, by orders, not by micro.

Try to get the now slower ships to escape from a fleet that decloaks behind it, which replays have shown cloakers to do; decloak behind the enemy when they start an attack and cut off retreat.

Splitting the fleet up would make it hurt more, since their strength would be reduced faster.

posted on April 21st, 2011, 9:48 pm

Ah, yes, I figured it was going to have to be the cloakers. Well, fair enough. But against the feds or dominion, that wouldnt happen, unless you had a defiant or breen cruiser fleet. Borg is safe.

But yes, there is always going to be that threat. But this is just to give the option in the controls, the degree to how people use this is optional. If you manually control supports to stay behind like currently, they can still uncloak and ambush your support vessel that you've left. So yes, making them all travel at the same speed keeps them together. But nothing will stop a player from individually targeting them if they want to shoot them down first.

It's a trade either way. But I still think the feature would be useful. Follow button.

What about special energy transfer, or a new way to allocate energy for subsystems? Maybe that should have been a separate thread.

Again, if it isnt a good idea... then its not. But it doesn't seem to be much different than what you would already do when you manually keep your support ships back from the battle. Yes, they are vulnerable from uncloaking ships that come from behind.. but thats no different from what it is now. And for borg specifically, its a tradeoff like it says in the guide, keep your ships together to make it seem like a smaller clump and force ships to come in close opening them up to all your weapons fire.. but then you can aoe weapons that do damage to all of your ships.

Naturally there will be advantages and disadvantages to many things in a strategy game, but just for there to be the option... I don't see any reason against it.

posted on April 21st, 2011, 11:14 pm

The normal formation modes already need fixing, and this wouldnt even provide anything you cant do allready.

Just have the support ship guard a ship in the fleet, it'll follow but mostly lag behind a little.

posted on April 22nd, 2011, 2:22 am

what? no thats not what I want at all... if its guarding the ship, then it wont stay out of the fight, it goes head long into the fight even though it does lag behind.

I think I know what you mean though, just for the movement part you mean? I've also tried this, but the problem is  it only lags behind during movement. Once they've arrived at the location then it will circle around it and it will no longer lag behind.

I'm looking for something that is more along follow at a distance and keep away. It will follow slowly behind, and once there, stay just out of reach. A set distance apart. 

But, yes, it would be very similar to guarding a ship, like following an enemy ship cloaked to reach the home base and everything. but that only works well during movement. and still requires micromanagement.

posted on April 22nd, 2011, 3:10 am

It's not doable in flops, ships on no movement autonomy still wander off due to changes to the settings.

So odds of the ship 'seeing' other allies shot at and going to join in on its own are high.

posted on April 22nd, 2011, 4:01 am

Tok'ra, why not let the developers decide what is or isn't doable and instead contribute to the development of the idea . No need to stifle something before it's been fully fleshed out 

posted on April 22nd, 2011, 4:13 am

Amusing, I just finished posting a similar comment in the other thread... devs make the choices ultimately.


Obviously I can't say much else to your post, aside from the idea I requested. Very similar to guard... (in that it is the complete opposite)

Follow at a distance, remain in support range, but do not engage the enemy fleet. Designed for support vessels.

posted on April 22nd, 2011, 4:22 am

Practical Solution To Keep Everyone Happy:


Just micro your ships carefully so that your Support Ships stay out of combat (if that's what you want)


  Personally I like my Leahvals, Canaverals, Qaw'Duj, and C-17 to be in the thick of the fights .  They all serve their own purposes and many of them have combat abilities that let them not only survive better but do more damage!

  I have a sneaking suspicion that this thread is mainly populated by peeps who play the AI.  If that be the case then I can see why you don't want your "spellcasters" in the thick of the fight.  Playing the AI is often a battle of attrition, so it makes sense that you wouldn't want your expensive support units in the line of fire. 

  For those playing multiplayer - I wouldn't worry too much about the speed of your support ships vs. the speed of the rest of your fleet.  As long as you micro your fleet appropriately you should be just fine.

[godsvoice]

posted on April 22nd, 2011, 4:45 am

Last edited by godsvoice on April 22nd, 2011, 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Sneaking suspicion indeed. 

What about in cases like sending a lone Borg Miner or constructor into uncharted space. You build an interceptor, or small destroyer to lead the way for the constructor to a certain moon pair. Tag the constructor or miner to follow the ship at a distance. I do play the AI, but I actually have numerous reasons for this kind of thing, but some might be just AI applicable. Plenty of things AI never catches onto that you can do with your ships.

Do people ever send ships alone, unguarded places? Just give them an escort, and set it to follow. Even if your escort gets ambushed, you won't be in the thick of it for your constructor, maybe you can get away.

Considering everyone is given a scout, you could just tell your constructor to follow your scout.

Guarding I've already commented on... it keeps them together, but the point is you are guarding, and this means stay close. I just don't think thats the feature that works for what I'm saying.

I was thinking more of support vessels... because this is already stated in the guide for watching out for (I thought of all the reasons I could offer, this would apply most to MP).

Another scenario. I have 4 intrepids and three warpins, but I've lost my scout. I want to attack an expansion I've already scouted, but don't know how safe it is. I send my nebula with its sensor boost ahead to scout it out, and have the others 'follow', if my extra sensor range shows its safe with only one turret, I can storm it with my strongest ships and specials to crush it, then send in the rest. If I run into trouble, and they come out with ships attacking me, they get the nebula, and that is unfortunate, but the rest of my fleet easily escapes.

Perhaps my ships are damaged, but a green nebula is nearby. I set my ships to go right through the nebula, but at 1/2 impulse, to soak up the effect a little bit more. I don't want to sit them there and wait, because maybe there are cloaked ships around. But I can get a benefit, slow them down to get more green, but keep them on the route home.

Again, this isn't just about a follow button, I'd like to be able to reduce the speed of some my ships manually, follow kind of just developed out of this.

I'm not arguing if these things can already be done someway different. But if something can be done to add it in  so that they do it exactly... isn't this more straightforward?

edit:  try to make a short concise post and you write something like - designed for support vessels, my fault of course, write a longer post, elaborate on many uses... post becomes too long  long posts you can say what you mean, short posts you try to say what you mean, but often say them in ways people take in a sense other than you intended, then you have to spend many more posts clarifying