Make Intrepids Small-sized

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on March 17th, 2011, 8:00 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on March 17th, 2011, 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Idea:Make Intrepid class small-sized.

Gameplay Reason:So that Feds take more damage from pulses in early game (like Klingons), and need to tech up to get the medium size ships.
Will especially help Klingons as they can then use K'vorts to really dish out pain to Intrepids. Also helps Rommies counter Intrepids perhaps a bit too much, but the Feds can get chassis 2 if they want something besides Monsoons and Sabers to kill Rommies.

Non-gameplay Reason:Intrepids are only a tiny bit bigger than Monsoons. They are so small that it has even confused commentators and players alike who thought Intrepid was small-sized.


EDIT: Upon further thought, I realize that the entire Rommie Staryard ship selection except Serkas and Spectres would do well against the Intrepid.
So I propose a second idea to encourage chassis 2: Remove the current chassis 1 since it's basically always needed unless you're Saber-spamming. Chassis 1 just doesn't have much of a reason to exist.
Chassis 2 and 3 could be renamed to 1 and 2, then some other things could get a cost increase to make up for chassis 1 not needing to be researched.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 8:25 pm

Chassis does more than that, its helps to slow down the fed-roll, its a speed bump, i think.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 8:40 pm

Once again, if you actually want to incorporate my thoughts into a post, ask me what I actually said .

I never ever said that a double Saber Start shouldn't work - it's been a strategy on the guide for quite some time in fact (as are the chassis 1 Norway/Canaveral starts), and it's not listed as an exploit 

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on March 17th, 2011, 8:48 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on March 17th, 2011, 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Once again, if you actually want to incorporate my thoughts into a post, ask me what I actually said .

I never ever said that a double Saber Start shouldn't work - it's been a strategy on the guide for quite some time in fact (as are the chassis 1 Norway/Canaveral starts), and it's not listed as an exploit 

I could've sworn you said "it isn't supposed to work." What did you say then? Also, didn't you talk about nerfing cover fire?

Chassis does more than that, its helps to slow down the fed-roll, its a speed bump, i think.

I think we need some stuff to make the ships less awesome at not dying rather than some stuff to just slow down the nearly inevitable.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 8:49 pm

Most likely said probably won't work, or something less definate like that.

I like Intrepid as medium, I don't think game size is the same as physical size.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:04 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on March 17th, 2011, 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Some ship lengths (in meters) from Ex Astris Scientia

Galaxy: 642 -large
Ambassador: 526 -large
Excelsior: 469 -medium
Akira: 440 -medium
Intrepid: 344 -medium (currently)
K'beajQ (D7): 228
Defiant: 120 -medium (for balance only)
BoP:110

The Intrepid is quite small for a Fed ship (and a whole 300 or so feet shorter than the medium-sized Akira), altho not as small as the Defiant (which is only medium for balancing reasons I think.)

EDIT: FO's size sytem added.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:13 pm

Not what I meant, I said game size isn't the same a physical size. What with ECM and all that computer warfare throwing things off.

Physically, the Intrepid is small (smaller than that figure suggests) but weapons don't care about that stuff.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:16 pm

ECM's strength is affected by size. It can vary by having especially good ECM, but those are the few exceptions.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:17 pm

Some ship lengths (in meters) from Ex Astris Scientia

Galaxy: 642
Ambassador: 526
Excelsior: 469
Akira: 440
Intrepid: 344
K'beajQ (D7): 228
Defiant: 120
BoP:110

According to this list, the Intrepid totally fits in the medium-sized stuff... with being not much shorter than Akiras and half the length of a Sovereign (688m or something around) the Intrepid shouldn't be small...

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:25 pm

That's funny, put up evidence and it works against you.

So would anything 300+ be medium? Becuase the Intrepid being 'less than half the size of a Galaxy' would still put it at somewhere over 300.

ECM's strength is affected by size. It can vary by having especially good ECM, but those are the few exceptions.

They're also not the group of few the Intrepid belongs to, being medium means it gets hit more often than a normal small ship. If it had a stronger ECM that a small ship normally whould, it would get hit less often.

That's why I like medium; Intrepid's more of a surveyor and long-range scout and shouldn't be as good as the other small ships.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:30 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on March 17th, 2011, 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Depends on where the cutoff point is between small and medium. The Klingon stuff can only be taken into account to point out the differences between Fed and Klingon ship sizing.

Fed ship lengths (in meters, some are approximate due to contradicting material)

Sovereign: 685 -large
Galaxy: 642 -large
Ambassador: 526 -large
Excelsior: 469 -medium (due to not as wide?)
Nebula (Bonchune) 465 -large
Nebula (Phoenix): 440 -large
Akira: 440 -medium
Steamrunner: 356 -medium
Norway: 355 -small
Intrepid: 344 -medium (currently)
New Orleans: 340 -unknown
Miranda: 243 -unknown
Saber: 223 -small
Nova: 221 -small
Centaur: 210 -unknown
Oberth: 150 -unknown
Defiant: 120 -medium (for balance only)

I'd say that if the Norway is small, so is the Intrepid, but then again the Norway is a support so probly has better ECM. Really rather difficult to find an exact cutoff point.
EDIT: Also have to take into account width if the E1 is any indication. This supports the Intrepid as small because it has much thinner proportions than most Fed ships, so its length may be misleading. I'll try to find width and depth numbers as well.

They're also not the group of few the Intrepid belongs to, being medium means it gets hit more often than a normal small ship. If it had a stronger ECM that a small ship normally whould, it would get hit less often.

That's why I like medium; Intrepid's more of a surveyor and long-range scout and shouldn't be as good as the other small ships.

It would indeed get hit less by torps, but torpedoes aren't exactly common before midgame unless you're facing Feds or Taq'roja. By making it small, it's actually worse off in the early game.

EDIT: added FO's size system to the ship lengths, and put in the earlier Fed numbers so people don't have to look back and forth.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:06 pm

I could've sworn you said "it isn't supposed to work." What did you say then? Also, didn't you talk about nerfing cover fire?

I was talking about the Saber under the effects of Cover Fire being overly effective against it's counters

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:07 pm

Well guys, I think it would benefit all of you stop and think also about an FO ship's "size" not just being it's physical length or width, but also being it's mass and hardware.


  The Excel is medium because it's long and slightly unwieldy.  It's ECM abilities are not as effective because it is quite long and thus could be harder to effectively cover that large of an area with countermeasures.

 The Defiant may be a tiny vessel, but it is packed to the gills with extremely strong and power-intensive systems and weapons.  Even if the ship itself is very maneuverable and good at dodging, it's power signature must be enormous.

 A B'rel is both tiny in length and tiny in mass.  On top of that it's maneuverability lend it an easy tag as small.

 
  Intrepids as medium makes perfect sense to me.  You don't pack lightly on a deep-space survey mission .

  The one that still baffles me though is the S-2 being small.  Visually it looks larger than many other medium sized vessels and it's stats are that of a medium cruiser.  2 strikes

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:22 pm

I thought FO lore had it that ECM only cared about volume (aka size for our purposes.) Dominus, what all does affect ECM?

B'rel maneuverability actually doesn't matter btw, as FO lore has it that torps actually have tracking capabilities at least on par with current military technology (we've had missiles that can shoot down other missiles, povided people make sure to keep the internal clock accurate, for almost two decades.)

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:33 pm

Balance, FO canon, size, passives