Late game: pass through blocking triggers
Post ideas and suggestions on new features or improvements here.
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posted on January 20th, 2012, 7:49 am
Last edited by yandonman on January 20th, 2012, 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Many RTS's have a mechanism that allows them to overcome certain terrain features in the late game. In more land based RTSs, there is high ground that is not traversable to unless utilizing a ramp. Usually, the RTS would then have a flying transport ship to overcome this terrain feature (the high ground).
Flops doesn't have the high-ground concept (kinda hard to in space), however, we do have blocking triggers, which serve much of the same purpose by creating inaccessible areas, choke points, etc.
I propose that Flops adds a mechanism to circumvent the blocking triggers in the "late" (relative term) game. Lore wise, there is the USS Pegasus's Phase-shifting cloak that would back this concept, so I suggest that the phase-cloak be this mechanism, and that it allows ships to pass through blocking triggers.
Some race specifics:
Federation: A research-able special on a science ship (or a new science ship) that exerts a large phase-cloak field causing many nearby ships to phase-cloak. Upon research of the ability (or construction of phase-cloak-specific ship), a diplomatic penalty of -1 offense, -1 defense to all ships and stations is incurred.
Romulan: A research-able upgrade to Warbird cloaks (pre-requisite: Warbird advanced cloak) - each ship would have to upgrade their cloak individually. (think refits.. balance by cost of research and refits)
Klingon: A research-able upgrade for the BortaS allows it to refit itself to a phase-cloak weapon equiped version of itself. The upgraded/refitted BortaS keeps it Advanced Cloak, but gives up all other abilities for a phase-cloak generator. Because of the inefficiencies of Klingon technology, it takes two overlapping BortaS's phase-cloak fields to affect blocking triggers (allowing ships to pass through them). A single Klingon phase-cloak field will cause blocking triggers to glow red (no ship pass through). The overlapping Klingon phase-cloak fields will glow a deeper red (allowing ship pass through). Enemies can utilize the phased blocking triggers (i.e. enemies can pass through them). The phase-cloak field will drain the BortaS energy reserves from full to zero in 20 sec.
Borg :borg: : As Borg lack imagination, assimilation of a ship from a faction that, at time of assimilation, possess phase-cloak technology (they must have researched, purchased or otherwise "have" phase cloak then), enables the Diamond chassis to select a phase-cloak module (up to 3). This module would allow the Diamond to extend a phase-cloak field to nearby allied vessels. Additional modules increase the range of the phase-cloak. Because of the size of Borg vessels, Borg vessels do not fully cloak, and are therefore visible (albeit with a slight 'ghost' effect: same effect as seeing your own cloaked vessels) to all. Detected phase-cloak exponetial hit rates apply.
Dominion: An upgrade to the Dominion Hyper-space Sensor Station allows it to exert a phase-cloak field on a specific area of known space (i.e. have to have viewed area at some point in time). Effect lasts 10 seconds and guarantees at least 1 large blocking trigger radius/area of affected space (overlapping blocking triggers of the one targeted are also phase-cloak-circumventable for those 10 seconds). A visual effect is visible to allies, who can utilize the phase-cloak field. A visual effect is NOT visible to the enemy, but the enemy can utilize the phased blocking triggers (i.e. enemies can pass through them).
Flops doesn't have the high-ground concept (kinda hard to in space), however, we do have blocking triggers, which serve much of the same purpose by creating inaccessible areas, choke points, etc.
I propose that Flops adds a mechanism to circumvent the blocking triggers in the "late" (relative term) game. Lore wise, there is the USS Pegasus's Phase-shifting cloak that would back this concept, so I suggest that the phase-cloak be this mechanism, and that it allows ships to pass through blocking triggers.
- Phase-cloaked vessels are all (normal) cloaked (i.e. detectable via normal (blue) Tachyon Ping), unless otherwise specified (see Borg).
- Vessels that are seen phase-cloaking and then fired upon have an exponentially increasing chance, starting at zero (0), of being hit and of being hit in the weapons system. Example: A ship that is in phase-cloak and detected and fired upon by the enemy will not take any damage the first volley (all fire will miss). The 2nd volley will have a 10% chance of hitting, the 3rd volley will have a 50% chance of hitting, then 90%, then 100% chance of hitting either hull (normal damage) or weapons (specifically).
- The weapons systems of a ship powers the phase-cloak or the phase cloak generator(the thing the exerts a phase-cloak field). A ship under the effect of an exerted phase-cloak field who's weapons are disabled is not 'phase-cloak-disabled' (won't become "stuck"). The phase-cloak exert-er would have to be destroyed or weapons taken off line to cease the phase-cloak field/effect.
- If the phase-cloak effect is disabled/no-longer-effecting a ship in a blocking trigger, the ship is becomes "stuck" (crew level goes to red, ship can not move or fire and lifesupport is disabled (flashing yellow, but not damanged) for 20 sec. Sensors are reduced to 1 (or whatever a 0 crew ship under one's control see's). Ship can transport)
- A ship with a personal phase-cloak (see Romulans), that are actively phase-cloaking and under the effect of a phase-cloak field or within the radius of a phase-cloak affected blocking trigger, whose weapons are diabled are not "stuck" - all phase-cloak effects or fields must be removed before a ship can get "stuck".
- Inversely, if a ship is "stuck" (perhaps "fused"?), and then later a phase-cloak field or effect is exerted upon it, it would become unstuck ("unfused"?).
Some race specifics:
Federation: A research-able special on a science ship (or a new science ship) that exerts a large phase-cloak field causing many nearby ships to phase-cloak. Upon research of the ability (or construction of phase-cloak-specific ship), a diplomatic penalty of -1 offense, -1 defense to all ships and stations is incurred.
Romulan: A research-able upgrade to Warbird cloaks (pre-requisite: Warbird advanced cloak) - each ship would have to upgrade their cloak individually. (think refits.. balance by cost of research and refits)
Klingon: A research-able upgrade for the BortaS allows it to refit itself to a phase-cloak weapon equiped version of itself. The upgraded/refitted BortaS keeps it Advanced Cloak, but gives up all other abilities for a phase-cloak generator. Because of the inefficiencies of Klingon technology, it takes two overlapping BortaS's phase-cloak fields to affect blocking triggers (allowing ships to pass through them). A single Klingon phase-cloak field will cause blocking triggers to glow red (no ship pass through). The overlapping Klingon phase-cloak fields will glow a deeper red (allowing ship pass through). Enemies can utilize the phased blocking triggers (i.e. enemies can pass through them). The phase-cloak field will drain the BortaS energy reserves from full to zero in 20 sec.
Borg :borg: : As Borg lack imagination, assimilation of a ship from a faction that, at time of assimilation, possess phase-cloak technology (they must have researched, purchased or otherwise "have" phase cloak then), enables the Diamond chassis to select a phase-cloak module (up to 3). This module would allow the Diamond to extend a phase-cloak field to nearby allied vessels. Additional modules increase the range of the phase-cloak. Because of the size of Borg vessels, Borg vessels do not fully cloak, and are therefore visible (albeit with a slight 'ghost' effect: same effect as seeing your own cloaked vessels) to all. Detected phase-cloak exponetial hit rates apply.
Dominion: An upgrade to the Dominion Hyper-space Sensor Station allows it to exert a phase-cloak field on a specific area of known space (i.e. have to have viewed area at some point in time). Effect lasts 10 seconds and guarantees at least 1 large blocking trigger radius/area of affected space (overlapping blocking triggers of the one targeted are also phase-cloak-circumventable for those 10 seconds). A visual effect is visible to allies, who can utilize the phase-cloak field. A visual effect is NOT visible to the enemy, but the enemy can utilize the phased blocking triggers (i.e. enemies can pass through them).
posted on January 20th, 2012, 10:05 am
a very interesting and well thought out idea. i'm not sure how it will affect balance, though. i guess on some maps this would be crazy, and on others it wouldn't mean as much.
i never really liked the idea of phase cloaking through asteroids and stuff in a2, just felt out of place.
giving the feds any sort of cloak is something i don't think would work well, as they could use it to raid.
i never really liked the idea of phase cloaking through asteroids and stuff in a2, just felt out of place.
giving the feds any sort of cloak is something i don't think would work well, as they could use it to raid.
posted on January 20th, 2012, 10:10 am
Phase cloaks shouldn't be able to be hit by weapons at all regards of being seen or not. But phase cloaks I feel should not be unlimited and will slowly drain the special energy of a ship, this makes them only usable for a short time. I also think if a phase cloaks fails in a blocking trigger or other solid object the vessel should be destroyed. So it does stick to canon but also gives limitations and drawbacks for such a weapon.
The phase cloak would make an exceptional retreat feature due to as soon as phase cloaking you stop taking damage and you can also sneak through that trigger/asteroid field that pursuers can't.
The phase cloak would make an exceptional retreat feature due to as soon as phase cloaking you stop taking damage and you can also sneak through that trigger/asteroid field that pursuers can't.
posted on January 20th, 2012, 10:45 am
I love the idea of phase cloaks, but I don't think they should be widespread.
Only the Romulans, Klingons and Federation have been known to research the technology, and it only seems like the Federation has been completely successful. If the Federation could get an Oberth with phase cloak as a potential warp-in for Risner maybe, that would be really cool. Lightly armed and armoured ship, but potential for great scouting.
Also wouldn't mind seeing Bortas or Talon with it either, but I really don't think it suits Borg or Dominion at all.
So yeah, I don't think we need phasecloaks in late game just to bypass blocking triggers, as it makes all races a bit samey, which is what Fleet Ops counteracts so well.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Dominion got some kind of fleet scale transporter station, that could beam a few ships a short distance, but could go through asteroids.
Borg could get their transwarp gate back in some form, and they already have transwarp drives on their smaller ships anyway.
But I agree to give every race *some* way of bypassing blocking triggers is important, I just don't think they should all be phasecloaks.
Only the Romulans, Klingons and Federation have been known to research the technology, and it only seems like the Federation has been completely successful. If the Federation could get an Oberth with phase cloak as a potential warp-in for Risner maybe, that would be really cool. Lightly armed and armoured ship, but potential for great scouting.
Also wouldn't mind seeing Bortas or Talon with it either, but I really don't think it suits Borg or Dominion at all.
So yeah, I don't think we need phasecloaks in late game just to bypass blocking triggers, as it makes all races a bit samey, which is what Fleet Ops counteracts so well.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Dominion got some kind of fleet scale transporter station, that could beam a few ships a short distance, but could go through asteroids.
Borg could get their transwarp gate back in some form, and they already have transwarp drives on their smaller ships anyway.
But I agree to give every race *some* way of bypassing blocking triggers is important, I just don't think they should all be phasecloaks.
posted on January 20th, 2012, 12:20 pm
Last edited by Andre27 on January 20th, 2012, 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I proposed to allow smaller vessels to navigate through asteroid belts etc some time ago. There was some discussion back then but i do not recall what the final outcome was.
The phase cloak is something i'd like to see ingame again, but not as widespread as proposed here.
Mixed tech for Romulans and/or Federation seems the best option to me.
Edit: Found the proposal together with a proposal to be able to booby trap:
Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Boobytraps - defensive structures in nebulas and asteroid fields.
The phase cloak is something i'd like to see ingame again, but not as widespread as proposed here.
Mixed tech for Romulans and/or Federation seems the best option to me.
Edit: Found the proposal together with a proposal to be able to booby trap:
Star Trek Armada II: Fleet Operations - Boobytraps - defensive structures in nebulas and asteroid fields.
posted on January 20th, 2012, 4:06 pm
I wouldn't mind if the Feds got phasing (without becoming invisible, as sensors can still pick them up) as a Veteran ability on one of their ships, or perhaps an officer ability on a few their Romulan Mixed-tech ships.
Otherwise I think it should be a Romulan Warbird refit only. Something hideously lategame when the other races have access to equally advantageous techs.
Otherwise I think it should be a Romulan Warbird refit only. Something hideously lategame when the other races have access to equally advantageous techs.
posted on January 20th, 2012, 10:13 pm
I'd also restrict phase cloak to Roms or Rom/TaQ'Roja mixed tech
. Borg already have transwarp. I could imagine the Dominion to create an artificial wormhole to pass through asteroids. Klingons could get a weapon to simply shoot asteroids.
A Fed large vessel could use the almighty deflector dish to split the asteroid fields.

A Fed large vessel could use the almighty deflector dish to split the asteroid fields.
posted on January 20th, 2012, 10:16 pm
If it's restricted to Romulans and the other races are given some other cool technology, the Romulans will be stuck with something that's only helpful on some maps.
posted on January 21st, 2012, 5:30 am
I have to say, I pretty much agree with most, if not all, of the criticisms.
cheeri-o

posted on January 21st, 2012, 7:57 am
That Fed penalty would add soooooo many ODFs.
posted on January 21st, 2012, 8:45 am
I like the concept of each race having their own way throu intead od phase cloak.
The Klingons could blast holes that would "regrow" after x seconds. Feds would have some parting the water moses style with the deflector, and again it would respawn. Borg if they had a short range transwarp jump that took a while to charge and take a lot of energy to use would be good.
Why not make the asteriods targetable and give each section a health value. That way rather than give up your energy using a special you give away your posistion blasting rocks.
The Klingons could blast holes that would "regrow" after x seconds. Feds would have some parting the water moses style with the deflector, and again it would respawn. Borg if they had a short range transwarp jump that took a while to charge and take a lot of energy to use would be good.
Why not make the asteriods targetable and give each section a health value. That way rather than give up your energy using a special you give away your posistion blasting rocks.
posted on January 21st, 2012, 9:13 am
davel27 wrote: Borg if they had a short range transwarp jump that took a while to charge and take a lot of energy to use would be good.
That's exactly what they have already on their probes and Scubes

posted on January 21st, 2012, 12:11 pm
davel27 wrote:I like the concept of each race having their own way throu intead od phase cloak.
The Klingons could blast holes that would "regrow" after x seconds. Feds would have some parting the water moses style with the deflector, and again it would respawn. Borg if they had a short range transwarp jump that took a while to charge and take a lot of energy to use would be good.
Why not make the asteriods targetable and give each section a health value. That way rather than give up your energy using a special you give away your posistion blasting rocks.
If this feature was to be implemented then having each race have a different mechanic would be the way to go in my opinion.
I like the idea of the targetable asteroids - especially if you could have destructible and non-destructible. I am envisioning a SC2 type of thing here where extra areas for bases can be opened up for use and still having some parts that are pertinently unaccessible. Unsure about the balance or how to implement such a thing.
posted on January 21st, 2012, 12:16 pm
Just for nostalgia's sake I would *love* the Feds to get phase cloak, even if it was just a pegasus map object.
I like the ability to clear paths in asteroids, although that might require making asteroids blocknig again codewise, not sure how hard it would be. Diffusion would cause the hole to disappear over time anyway, so it wouldn't even look silly for the hole to shrink.
Not for all asteroids at least, don't want the map to end up as empty space, but many some maps could have corridors that could be opened up if the map editor wanted.
I like the ability to clear paths in asteroids, although that might require making asteroids blocknig again codewise, not sure how hard it would be. Diffusion would cause the hole to disappear over time anyway, so it wouldn't even look silly for the hole to shrink.
Why not make the asteriods targetable and give each section a health value. That way rather than give up your energy using a special you give away your posistion blasting rocks.
Not for all asteroids at least, don't want the map to end up as empty space, but many some maps could have corridors that could be opened up if the map editor wanted.
posted on January 21st, 2012, 12:24 pm
Unleash Mayhem wrote:Just for nostalgia's sake I would *love* the Feds to get phase cloak, even if it was just a pegasus map object.
The Pegasus as a dirty warfare map object. Phase Cloak and mine layer (Aceton assimilator - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki).
As a map object we wouldn't have to worry too much about balance.

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