Is the Sovereign underpowered?

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 6:14 pm

Almost all the people in your poll for the chassis thread say they either research it sometimes or all the time, so I'm not sure this statement is accurate.

That was my poll, not his. He just kinda had the same idea.
I'm ok with the Sovereign, I just never use it since I stop teching up usually after I have Remores. Torps that instantly take out a Cruiser's shields? Free Galaxies and Descents? Why bother getting the most powerful non-Descent Fed ship? It sure makes a nice late game ship if you have some extra resources lying around and need to kill some battleships with more than Excel-IIs, but it seems like too modest an increase over what else is available.

My poll was also about the Defiant, a ship that I've seen used once in my week of online play (and I was the one using it, it was Klingon mixed-tech.) The Defiant, the first true Starfleet warship and without its special it's essentially useless except as a destroyer-killer, though why you would need a destroyer killer that late in the game I have no idea.

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 6:17 pm

lol these threads keep coming back, its like a weed. it wont die lol.

the sovvie isnt up

its amazing. its not meant to be an offensive beast, and im glad the devs wont be making it one. its a defensive beast, which is exactly what fits the feds. u cant play against the AI and make any judgements, as the tactics used against the AI are so different from online play. if u get sovvies they are amazing. worth the money.

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 6:19 pm

lol these threads keep coming back, its like a weed. it wont die lol.

And as soon as one ship is dealt with, they just move on to another... the Sovereign is truely the new Galaxy in more ways than the movies expected.

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 6:23 pm

Well, that role would be more suited for a science ship. The souvereign should have something like... lets be creative:

Is will stand against the Negh'var and the Big D and the D-7 Defender.

The Negh'var is in my eyes underpowered. Just increase the costs for this ship by doubling it and make it to a fear factor. For me, the Negh'var is a dreadnought and not a "better cruiser". I barely use them.

The Big D is not really nasty. I think it needs something like a "hold the line" ability. The subspace bombardement is a nice idea for it, but I think it needs a "punch factor" at first sight. I use them only together with a fleet, never alone.

The S-7 Defender is pretty nice I think. Deactivate engines in order to hold the enemy in the fire arc and take it down with a few shots. I can use it alone or in a fleet.

The souvie is a "fire and forget" unit. Sometimes it will survive and make a rank more, sometimes it wont. It just dont concerns me. The special is only effective in a short range so I can only hit many ships with it, when I fly into the bulk of enemies. Thats not a retreat. I get followed by long range targets that are faster and the souvie gets down.
In my eyes, this ship can get a cost increase like the Negh'var but for this getting better stats and a special that is worth for this ship.

The special of the souvie should be an altered refit:
#1: Command vessel: Increase the effectivness of all surrounded ships by activating the command ability. It will use special energy while used and increase the dodge ability of nearby ships and the hitchance of nearby ships by 10% (each) and increase at the same time the offensive and defensive value by 15% (each).

So, when we calculate, we get a ... round 30% increase of combat abilities, good when using torps, not so good when using beam weapons.

#2: Frontline vessel:
All attributes are slightly increased together with the speed of this ship. It gets the "resistance ability" that will neglete the effect of special weapons completly by using up its own special energy. For this, this ship wont get any specials, only this passive one. (And the ablative thing and hull polarization and so on) Weapon range increased to long range.

Veteran-ability should also be changed. I think the better hull regen is only useful, if the shields are already down. And in this state, this ship is pretty much destroyed.

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 6:31 pm

i usually play feds, but sovereign isnt my first choice, engine overload isnt suited for a slow ship. Its durability is strong, but since you are going to get this ship later, in larger battles fleets target ships one by one, since its a big ship torpedoes never miss, and it wont last much more than its counterparts, you wont get away cos with the engine overload.
How about getting that ability to faster ships to catch fleeing enemies with cloak, he may cloak but will be here for a few seconds to allow you detect him? just a thought.
Amadas carbonat deflector was much better, but maybe too much... here is a thought, how about making it more resistant to phaser fire, for a few seconds, as a special ability. It will still take same damage from torpedoes.
But we will have to wait what devs have in plan for it...  

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 6:47 pm

well, i will just stop posting anymore

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 6:49 pm

I love how people toss out phrases willy-nilly in these threads like,

 "I'd use the Defiants but they're basically useless..."

Makes me wonder if you guys ever even bother doing anything other than turtling against an AI...


  Look, guys ...  TRY ... please TRY to use ships in this game as something other than another characterless unit making up the wall you put in front of the AI.  Few ships show their true colors or their true purposes when you are playing an opponent that can, by design, build faster than you and without limitations.  It reduces the purpose of your own units to basically a flying hunk of numbers-

 ---Which spawns the millions of threads like these---

 Against another human who has the same setup you do, the same rules you do, and the varying tactics of a BRAIN, you will find that a Sovereign is an immensely powerful unit and can cause havoc with it's special.  Short range units are essentially useless to it unless they are en masse - which is good because your sovereign is doing it's job to TANK those units, and many short range units are forward-firing only as well, letting your engine special shine.

  And Defiants are not useless to the ninny who said that ... try using them against something they counter and not against Borg Cubes ...

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 7:57 pm

I never build sovys as the exc II is much better to build.

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 7:59 pm

thats not true, one of the basics of fleetops is that higher tech ships are better value for money than lower tech ships.

the reason most people dont get to tech up is that a lot of games end before top ships get fielded.

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 10:26 pm

I never build sovys as the exc II is much better to build.

Because the Excelsior II is slower, weaker crewed, directionally challenged, less cost effective, and weak to anti-long ranged units?

The Sovie like all Fed units has a distinct role and place in battlefleets. It is not a mainline warship like the Akira or Excel II - it is a high end unit. You don't fill out your fleets with Breen Battleships (well, you can, but you'll regret it) nor any other high ranking unit because they are specialized and costly. It's like saying the Akira is useless because the Intrepid is good against mediums, faster, cheaper, and is available earlier.

[Bigmachk]

posted on June 4th, 2010, 2:11 am

Last edited by Bigmachk on June 4th, 2010, 2:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

Still doesn't change the fact that i rather build something else than the sovy as its build time is too long and its special is situational, I rather see it replaced with something more useful.

posted on June 4th, 2010, 2:16 am

I would agree the sov is underpowered. More so its just boring to use I'm a ent-d > ent-e fan. So naturally its heresy for me to build sov's


In theory I would like to see sov's abilities have a phaser boost like in nemesis, and maybe a active speed boost (like the sabres)

posted on June 4th, 2010, 5:13 am

the race redos we are currently working on will change a lot on the federation techtree, including some new roles for the Sovereign yet it wont become a torpedo-yielding zealot

Race re-do's? Gief more infos! Especially borg ones!