Honour and the Imperial Yard

posted on March 17th, 2011, 6:22 pm

[align=center]Motivation[/align]

The klinks are unique for having 5 yards. but the imperial yard sadly doesnt get much time out there. im gonna ignore very special strats like bortas and focus on general play.

The yard costs a large amount and doesnt really give you a lot more than you already have, considering the general usefullness of the vorcha and battle yard stuff in general.

Sangs kill big capital ships, qawduj are awesome magic wielders, charghs stop capital ships from repairing their large def back, vutpas dodge any torp spams, vorchas kill everything, and luspets are ok too. the battle yard can easily satiate your needs all game.

Its not that the imperial yard doesnt give you anything, its just that it gives you a lot of stuff you already have, but dont really need to pay through the nose for the yard and associated research buildings for.

So i am throwing about some ideas on making it different, a bit less like a yard, and a bit more like warpin.

[align=center]Background/Lore[/align]

We know that the klinks arent 1 unified force like the other races. they operate in houses, that sometimes fight and whatever. whether the avatars reflect this is another thing, its possible that its the house of martok/taqroja.

Personally i think that each house can do some things, but sometimes the entire empire needs to pull together to get large scale projects done. So field and battle yards/certain stations can be made on a per house basis, but things with "imperial" in the name require empire co-ordination. kinda like warpins. it takes the empire pulling together to make the big specials and ships like the neggie. but bops and vorchas can be made by houses easily.

[align=center]The Idea[/align]

So i suggest bringing the imperial yard closer to the warpins. the yard would cost a similar amount as it does now and be capped at 1. but the ship costs would go down for imperial yard, as the empire is pulling together to help your glorious house make the fancy guns.

Maybe the neggie could get capped too, as the empire cant help everyone spam neggies the cap could be like the phalanx, at 8 ish. maybe the neggie could get a small stats boost to bring it to phalanx levels in general.

The empire probably wouldnt give this honour to any old house. so that would require some sort of honour system to be in place. thats a separate discussion though. so maybe you cant build the imperial yard until you have used at least 10 of your veteran slots, as vets are honourable warriors and make your house sound good.

On a side note, an honour system would be awesome, maybe more honour could mean more vet slots though this has been discussed before i think, stuff like killing gives honour and stuff.

This idea isnt set in concrete, its just for discussion to spark some ideas.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on March 17th, 2011, 7:48 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on March 17th, 2011, 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think needing 10 vet slots will make it even less often used. The Imperial Yard is great, it's the Battle Yard, and the Vor'cha in particular, being just as great for less money and time that's the problem.
Also, I doubt that the houses would get together to give one house the biggest ships, as that would make that house very powerful in the next bout of infighting.

Vor'cha need another weakness added I think. Maybe Ablative Armor (or just Klingon ablative armor) could cause the ship to take more damage from torpedoes or make the Vor'cha count as large-sized or something.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 8:06 pm

I think needing 10 vet slots will make it even less often used. The Imperial Yard is great, it's the Battle Yard, and the Vor'cha in particular, being just as great for less money and time that's the problem.
Also, I doubt that the houses would get together to give one house the biggest ships, as that would make that house very powerful in the next bout of infighting

yeah, maybe a smaller number of slots need to be used. a true honour system would be more appropriate. the ships would be worth the costs though, like warpins.

about houses working together, thats what the klingon central government is for, co-ordinating house co-operation. the houses have to help protect the empire from its enemies, they would pool resources to defend the empire as a whole. maybe after the enemies have been fought off, the neggies would be transferred into the control of someone more neutral, like the central government. that would happen outside of fleetops games though.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 8:22 pm

I've already posted an idea that didn't receive to much support, but I believe the Klingons could use another large battleship.

This could be added to the Imperial Yard, decent stats for a decent price. Something attractive for the Imperial Yard. There was another post somewhere suggesting moving the Chonaq to an earlier yard for reduced stats.

If the Chonaq were moved, and a new Imperial Yard large battleship introduced this might add to Klingon gameplay in making Chonaq more used, and causing the Imperial Yard to be more appealing with the idea of a new ship with some neat tricks, consequently making the imperial Yard more used as well.

Just an idea. Right now I can't imagine weakening the Vorcha. As I see it, the Klingons don't have real large battleship usage. All other races have multiples, even 'super' ships (HSA, Tavara, Cube, etc) to choose from. The Klingon avenue is one of smaller (meaning medium) ships with a variety of functions. Vorchas, Qawduj, Kvort/Kbeajq beginning, Vutpa, Sang. This is the meat of their fleet. Luspet is only for Martok. With the single choice of Neghvar for large battleship from Imp. Yard, as has been suggested, the building of the Imperial Yard doesn't necessarily improve gameplay a whole lot of Klingons. Bortas yes.. as large support ship.

Anyways, I agree with the idea of giving the Klingons a boost in the above area. I really think an appealing new large battleship would do the trick. I have no ideas on what, or any specifics... but to me, it seems clear. I still love the Klingons, my natural tendency in many types of games is to go for the medium ships that offer big bang for your buck (but usually it involves waiting to use something very large to finish it quickly). You can have quality and quantity. But I also like possibilities. I would prefer to say that using the medium is a choice I make vs XYZ, instead of going large or what have you for instance. Klingons don't have the choice, its just what you almost have to do, the XYZ is lacking. That's less fun, of course you can always choose another race, which I understand. But within a Klingon context, I just don't know if the flexibility is there. The choices are between a range of medium ships depending on what you want to do. If you are facing this, you get this M ship, that you get a different M ship. But the large ships you have at your disposal, are not conveniently set up.

As for the suggested change, of making things cheaper... with a cap for their only large Battleship? I don't know if I see the benefits. If the problem is that Klingons don't have a practical avenue to apply large Battleships I agree... but I don't think the solution is in making the one ship they have cheaper, and putting a cap on it. As is already known, this road involves a long techtree to reach with research stations. I think I remember reading the observation that if a Klingon player reaches a point where they have a steady Neghvar production by reaching that point where they can do that, theyve already won. Doesn't sound to flattering for Klingons.

My view, offer something as an alternative to the variety of medium class vessels. I think another, accessible, large battle ship is good.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:27 pm

Oh also on a sidenote, the idea of honour system to increase vet slots, keeping in mind the Klingon culture is quite interesting.

Just not sure about the reduced costs and cap for the Neghvar.

But yeah, almost like the resources they get currently for kills, they could get honour in some fashion for kills or what not, and this increases vetslots to a new maximum. what is it currently 25 slots? so perhaps 35 slots over a certain number of kills/time.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:30 pm

What about TaQ’roja? I can't see the High Command or many houses sponsoring her faction. Few Duras seem to be all that big in the honor department, either.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:37 pm

What about TaQ’roja? I can't see the High Command or many houses sponsoring her faction. Few Duras seem to be all that big in the honor department, either.

well by fleetops times its possible she has earned some friends, especially if she placed herself as opposing martok's peace with the feds ways. i think that taqqy would get support from the empire if facing an enemy race. as all the avatars are troops for the race in question.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:50 pm

Remember that in fact Martok has quite a few enemies - he allied with the Feds, even after the brief war with them, and he has to deal with an Empire that is crumbling about him. TaQ'roja offers us a real chance for regaining our honor and our Empire! She not only has the will - but the means to restore us to our heritage 

posted on March 17th, 2011, 9:57 pm

Probably not as many enemies after the Dominion War. Especially when the alternative is a member of the Duras house.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:02 pm

Probably not as many enemies after the Dominion War. Especially when the alternative is a member of the Duras house.

well that was 30 years before fleetops, a lot can change.

from what i gathered about the devs backstory, martok isnt so secure, a lot of the empire arent so pleased with being chums with the feds. klinks need conquest, not diplomacy

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:03 pm

TaQ'roja is not officially part of the House of Duras - she only wants to claim their space and planets, but Duras does not want that

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:03 pm

All of which sounds like the Klingon Empire is looking for a new battleship! Think of the morale boost to the Klingons when they get the chance to die with honour on a new battleship!

It could even be the honour system! The ship offers honour points for each kill, allowing for more veterans!

It's a perfect solution. The ship can have some nice stats, and introduces the honour system.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:09 pm

there is more honour in little ships. on a battleship, with hundreds of klinks, each one feels less important and responsible for kills.

thats why klinks should get to battleships less than other races, just not as less as they do now.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:13 pm

agreed. the brel was probably a very honourable ship to serve on.

still something that could be discussed and considered.

honour is not just a one way thing. brel are an honour to individual soldiers. the flag battleship is an honour in the service of the empire. in could go both ways.

its not like the neghvar has brought less honour to the empire over the last 50 years its been in service *or however number of years its been.

we can also edit the ships description so that it is clear what its function is to the empire. honourable and such.

posted on March 17th, 2011, 10:16 pm

Klingon battleships are there mainly to show off, not to fight. It's very rare to see them used for anything other than station/planet assaults.

Martok has problems, but is still the strongest faction in the empire. There have been people unhappy with the alliance all the way back to TNG. None of them have gotten anywhere, a cowardly pirate isn't likely to do that much better a job.

TaQ’roja still isn't that good with the 'honor' concept.