Excelsior - Lakota Model for Warp-in.

posted on January 31st, 2010, 12:38 am

There is a problem I see with the Excelsior.
The Lakota was not a vessel of the standard Excelsior class.
Like the Enterprise B, this type of the Excelsior class is built that way from the start, the Lakota was just refitted with better phasers and quantum torps as well as better shields.

I would prefer this type as an additional warpin-class with slightly enhanced Excelsior-stats and single fire quantum torps to stay closer to the original Excelsior and be the best possible predecessior to the Excelsior II.

[Boggz]

posted on January 31st, 2010, 12:55 am

Last edited by Boggz on January 31st, 2010, 1:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lol @ you guys.  You keep throwing around these words like speculation and conjecture, yet I have not seen any one of you make any reference to any kind of evidence or proof.  Try checking out Memory Alpha is you want to prove a fact .  I'm' seeing a lot of "I Believe's" in there .

we didnt see a single excel use shields during the dominion war, does that mean starfleet removed all their shield generators, you cant speculate what the official refit programs were.

if you can make conjecture so can i i prefer to think that eventually all excels will be lakota refits, but for now they are limited.

There were no shields 95% of the time in DS9 because they wanted the space battles to look cooler with more pew pew and more explosions!  It has absolutely no basis in what's actually happening.  Sometimes ships have shields, sometimes they don't.  Usually in small battles the Defiant or other ships get shields.  In large battles they want to show what's actually blowing up.

Perhaps what I said about Admiral Leyton is Speculation, but I assure you the rest is not. If Starfleet had been moving towards 'Lakota' refitting the entire line don't you think that we would have seen at least one Excelsior firing Quantum Torpedoes during the dominion war? it was one of the most widely used ships...

Again I am talking about 'official' Refit programs that were implemented by Starfleet. What is speculation is that the Lakota is a prototype for the next generation of Excelsior refits. That is Conjecture.

   Of course this is speculation you silly!  You are just giving your opinion on it.  Where are you gettings these notions of yours about the lakota "program" and such?

Keep in mind that the Lakota is nearly as old as the Excelsior itself. 


EDIT:  Here:  Read some of this shit.  Excelsior class - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

It's good for you .  The Lakota version is an entirely different vessel - not an "upgrade" or a true refit.  The actual structure of the vessel is larger and it was physically altered for Generations because they needed a place where Kirk could be blown out of .

posted on January 31st, 2010, 1:30 am

Even in-universe, there is evidence of it not being a mere refit. The Enterprise-B was still incomplete and it already had the altered look.

posted on January 31st, 2010, 1:48 am

Maybe I shoudl clarify!

  I was suggesting that we simply have the Enterprise-B model included in the Warp-in ships.

  When I said use the "Lakota Refit" I should have specified that I did not actually mean the uber-powerful version of the ACTUAL Lakota that was from "Paradise Lost".  I didn't mean a ship that was refit to be on par with a Defiant, but just the model used in Generations and Paradise Lost.

[navyguy]

posted on January 31st, 2010, 5:46 am

Last edited by navyguy on January 31st, 2010, 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

I thought that the historical history would be important in the game, i will argue you this until iam blue in the face, you dont take a pre Galaxy Class ship and make her into a short weapons platform. Your talking about a ship that was modified, the Lakota, one, the Ambassador was a standard heavy cruiser, in productin. Well maybe will see something done with her. Iam glad its in the game.

posted on January 31st, 2010, 10:21 am

I thought that the historical history would be important in the game, i will argue you this until iam blue in the face, you dont take a pre Galaxy Class ship and make her into a short weapons platform. Your talking about a ship that was modified, the Lakota, one, the Ambassador was a standard heavy cruiser, in productin. Well maybe will see something done with her. Iam glad its in the game.

I don't understand your frustration over the Ambassador's range ....

It's a game.  Not everything can be long ranged ... Ships that are long ranged are slower than ships with Short range ...

I don't think that the Developers necessarily took their reasons for making ranges the way they are from examples in the shows.  I figured that they decided on weapon ranges based on what the ships role was.

  B'rels: close combat destroyers that are fast.  Thus, short range.

  Vorcha / Warbird / Galaxy: the TNG Battleships = decent speed, medium range.

  I mean ... it's not about what was old or new or whatever ... it's about making a game.

posted on January 31st, 2010, 11:33 am

the most famouse appearance of the Ambassador is of course the Enterprise-C incident. The Enterprise fought against three hostile short-range attack crafts and bound them for quite some time.. if that's ot the strategic outline of a short range craft..

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on January 31st, 2010, 3:34 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on January 31st, 2010, 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I thought the same thing when the captain was explaining the encounter 

posted on January 31st, 2010, 5:42 pm

Also, the short-ranged Ambassador and the ablative-armoured Vor'Cha show are a good simulation of a technological counterpart. I think this is a good part of the mod, and regarding the passive abilities, the devs did a great job.
The klingons for example ever expect that situations of war or skirmish can happen anytime and even with usual allies, so they built the Vor'Cha as invulnerable as possible to the ships they knew at this point.

posted on January 31st, 2010, 5:47 pm

The Vor'cha Class was new around the same time as the Galaxy was, it can't have been a counterpart to the Ambassador.

posted on January 31st, 2010, 5:52 pm

i agree, i thought everyone acted in awe when k'mpec came in a vor'cha class. the chancellor usually has the nicest ride, so the vor'cha must have been new.

posted on January 31st, 2010, 5:53 pm

The Vor'cha Class was new around the same time as the Galaxy was, it can't have been a counterpart to the Ambassador.

Not directly, but in the way of superiority, because the Ambassador isn't suited against a Vor'Cha.

[quaddmgtech]

posted on February 1st, 2010, 6:14 pm

Last edited by quaddmgtech on February 1st, 2010, 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Ok Boggz...   :lol:

From Memory Alpha:
"With the impending threat of the Dominion against the Federation, Starfleet began to experiment, in 2372, with performing a refit on the Excelsior-class USS Lakota. Upgrades included improved phaser emplacements, quantum torpedoes, and other improvements to make the ship competitive with such ship designs as the Defiant-class. (DS9: "Paradise Lost") "

Tell me where this says that it is a completely different vessel? Of course it's not the same exact ship as the Enterprise-B even if they used the same studio model. But it's still built on the base Excelsior space-frame. Also, The excelsior was created as an Experiment for transwarp... They don't use transwarp now... Just because they experimented with improving on this particular vessel doesn't mean that it was deemed a 'successful' project. Even if the weapons (Quantums etc.) are well battle proven on other platforms it may just not make sense for other factors.

posted on February 1st, 2010, 6:40 pm

Tell me where this says that it is a completely different vessel?

The Enterprise B and the Lakota are at least no "just refitted" Excelsiors. They were of another type OF the Excelsior.

It's simply not plausible that starfleet overhauls ships in a way that doesn't go as far as the refit of the Constitutions or in a way that goes barely further than just changing interior systems.
Starfleet doesn't work that way. No half things, unless they establish subtypes of existing classes.

posted on February 1st, 2010, 6:44 pm

Not taking sides, but the incomplete Enterprise-B was built with the altered look from the start. The Lakota had the same look, just with different colors.