Dominion Modifications - opinions please

posted on February 6th, 2009, 9:33 pm

Would it be possible for any or all of the below mentioned changes to be made for the Dominion:

1. Dominion Dreadnought no longer limited to mixed tech. Since the Roms have Tavs, and the borg.. well cubes, seems fair that the dom have the ship that they themselves have developed.
Particularly when no single Dominion ship packs any true punch except for the Breen cruiser whose defense is a little more respectable than the standard Battlecruiser, given that the Dominion Dreadnought is already pretty well balanced for when the Dominion does build it in the mixed tech tree, would it be that much trouble to see it in the normal standard tech tree, buildable from its special yard? (we still retain the high cost and star requirements of course... nothing is changed except who gets to build it)
I would certainly call to mind the fact that in any multiplayer game a person who has an ally from another race can build this beast at the outset anyway.
Building it after having to research its technology just as we do when unlocking mixed tech now would be fun.
Mixed tech can still have its bonuses for it, just as mixed tech has bonuses for existing klingon or fed or rom or borg (and borg mixed tech is pretty dull atm) ships.

2. Dominion mining - allow supply gatherer and resource gatherer to be able to mine from the same moon at the same time.
Almost all dominion ships hve a high supply requirement. A race that is canonically noted for building expertise and quick development is spammed by Feds and klings....

3. Increase build rates on Scarab ships.
the scarab is the only ship of the Jem'hadar that has no prototype requirement. Yet, when building this ship we see tht it takes a long time to construct.
I am not asking for quick pumpouts by the yards, but a little more alacrity in their construction would be nice, especially since these are noted as the swarming backbone of any Dominion fleet.
Given the Dominion's high supply requirement to construct the mainstay ships, it would be nice to see the Dominion having these ships in numbers to couner the fed sov and excelsior spammers.

4. With reference to 3, Black Baron had mentioned a very cool idea of the "stronger ram with experience only"and "Wolf-pack replacing ram for ships under a specific rank" abilities for this class.
If we were able to use this class's numbers to compensate for a very slow build rate of the Dominion;'s other battelships we could have an interesting mix to compensate for Fed/Kling spams.
also, this ship class is pretty weak. So balancing is not a major issue here.
Consider 10 of these against 4 excelsiors. The Excelsiors kills these any day.


Any ideas?

posted on February 6th, 2009, 9:56 pm

I for one vote for absolutly every one of this ideeas. I think it is unfair to the dominion, that they need an allie to actually build what i consider theyr flag ship. It should be buildable from the Large Yard ( or some sort of new yard would also be cool ), and remain as a mixed tech unit as well with those bonuses. All the other ideeas are great as well.

posted on February 7th, 2009, 1:03 am

I honestly dislike the idea of the Dom Dreadnought being allowed to be built outside of mixed tech. The reasoning should not be "Since the Roms have Tavs, and the borg.. well cubes, seems fair that the dom have the ship that they themselves have developed" because we would like to preserve uniqueness... every race should NOT have a superweapon and a supership. Thus why I think there should be no Premonition as well. The rest of the ideas seem fair to me 

posted on February 8th, 2009, 9:28 pm

any more ideas?

[Meng]

posted on February 8th, 2009, 10:50 pm

Last edited by Meng on February 8th, 2009, 11:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I agree that it would be more realistic to have the dreadnought built by a normal yard.
One of the reasons is that the dominion used these dreadnoughts already in the dominion war and it doesn't seem to make sense that they need tech of other races to build the same ship 20 or so years later.

If the dreadnought was to be implemented as a normal dominion vessel it could also be built direcly by the worker ship, like the hyperspace artillery.
(to kinda emphasize that they both follow that huge ship concept)

Or they could both be built from a special large yard.

To take it even further (veeery hypothetical) this could be combined with this special shipyard concept you had for a dominion super weapon.

So that maybe a player could choose to either build the super yard that builds multiple ships at a time, or the one that grants access to dreadnoughts and hyperspace artillery, or something like that.

I also believe that the uniqueness is important and i would hate to see fleets of dreadnoughts meet fleets of tavaras, so I suggest making the dreadnought's yard cost credits (maybe 3 or so), so that the dreadnoughts stay very few in number.
Maybe there could even be a cap for dreadnoughts so that the overall dominion playstyle isn't lost.

[Anonymous]

posted on February 8th, 2009, 10:57 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on February 8th, 2009, 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

that sounds cool. 
But I wouldnt want to trade up multiple ships fpr a dreadnought. we may have this yard able to build dreadnoughts without the "star limit" vs the yard buolding multiple ships.
That would be interesting.
But we will still need a Dreadnought yard as u suggested for the regular dreadnoughts under a "star limit".... nice one.

[tom]

posted on February 8th, 2009, 11:57 pm

Last edited by tom on February 9th, 2009, 12:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

1. i think the approach to this sholud not be "Since the Roms have Tavs, and the borg.. well cubes" or "it would be more realistic to have the dreadnought built by a normal yard" but like Dominus_Noctis said. this is the strongest ship (borg not included) in the game and an addition to a battleship that the dom already has. it's not something u should see in every game and with the dom build model u could spam them from the beginning or ruin the model that is now. i would like it to stay as is.

2. maybe good but i would prefer dropping supply cost for stations and research.

3. "Dominion having these ships in numbers to couner the fed sov and excelsior spammers" is Scarab ships the name for bug ship? r u really using bugs to counter sovs... really? good luck man  i think bugs r fine as they're now.

4. "Consider 10 of these against 4 excelsiors. The Excelsiors kills these any day." the way it should be imo. good idea with wolf-pack but i think doca or optec said somewhere that it's not possible right now

posted on February 9th, 2009, 12:38 am

The bugship is the tier 1 Dom ship.  The equivalent to the Sabre.  Will 10 Sabre fair better against a Dom Siege Cruiser, their equivalent to the Excelsior?

I personally don't believe that the tier 1 baby-ships should fare all that well against the second shipyard vessels, so I feel that 4 Excelsior-class ships defeating 10 Bugships (barring rammings and careful manuvers) should win that fight.

[Lt.Cdr.White]

posted on May 4th, 2009, 12:03 am

Last edited by Lt.Cdr.White on May 4th, 2009, 12:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

I would also be happy if there was some way to build the dreadnought without mixed tech.

If it hadn't been for this thread and the screenshot gallery, I wouldn't even know the Dreadnought was in.

I almost startet a thread complaining that none of the cruisers was in scale or looked like the well know big battle cruiser seen in the show because of that.

So this means a Dominion player not playing with an AI or other player in the same team can only get the dreadnought by boarding an enemy construction vessel?

I'm off to the forum search to try to find some more on mixed tech and possible new units now.

posted on May 4th, 2009, 12:27 am

is Scarab ships the name for bug ship?

The Jem'Hadar fighter was designed by Jim Martin, whose scarab-shaped design was based on Rick Sternbach's Egyptian influences.

Jem'Hadar fighter - Memory Alpha, the Star Trek Wiki

posted on May 4th, 2009, 12:48 am

ST-GALAXY NETWORK - Offline

Complete list of Mixed Tech 

posted on May 4th, 2009, 1:54 am

I'm imagining how incredibly overpowered it would be if you gave me Dreadnoughts in a 1v1 or 3 FFA, since that's the only time I don't get them.  The most recent game with me as dominion gave me 2 romulan style Dreadnoughts, who singlehandedly destroyed 6 luspets and 5 mixed tech defiants.  Actually, the last defiant got me.  We're talking over seven thousand dilithium in ships to take out my two thousand dilithium force.  And half the time I was busy defending against an attack on my base.  You don't have to even pay attention to what you're doing and you can still win.  That's how amazing those ships are.

I just don't see a problem with the Dominion.  The mods have already stated that the bug will get a small boost, and so will the S-2 Cruiser, by getting a defensive value higher than 16.   Once that and the C-11 change happens, the small chinks the the Dominion's armor will be gone.

But if you want to make my favorite race to play as the most unstoppable, overwhelmingly powerful force in Fleet Ops, I'm all for it!

I am for these changes!   

[Anonymous]

posted on May 4th, 2009, 2:27 am

Last edited by Anonymous on May 4th, 2009, 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

this is an old post actually. but thanks

at the time of posting this i was hoping ot streamline the dominion lineup.
most of the dominion ships were weak, and the mods had not announced anything. so at that time i was requesting this.

things have changed since

one point though - the dominion dread is available in MP only by virtue of a teammate. if we do find the luspet + defiant destruction thingy, then even MP is not properly balanced, cos the only criterion to get it is the extra teammate of a differnt race.

O optec where art thou lol 

[Anonymous]

posted on May 4th, 2009, 2:39 am

Last edited by Anonymous on May 4th, 2009, 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

Damn, this is an old post.  I guess I only checked the dates on the last couple of posts.   :D  To be honest, I really enjoy the flavor of how they've done the mixed tech for the Dreadnought.  It also gives you a reason to do mixed tech no matter who you're with, becaue you'll at least get something.  I'd actually like to see other races have one ship that carries over to each mixed tech yard, like having the Miranda II for every Federation Mixed tech yard.

As to the B-8 War frigate, the only reason it's superfluous is the insane cost attributed to troop vessels.  At least for the klingon one it's an optional upgrade.  If they made the upgrade optional for the B-8 that thing would shine.  Long range, pulse disruptors, and the only small yard cruiser with any kind of defensive value.  Plus the special it gets is killer.  Having a few of those drop IS bombs would spell doom for anyone that follows.  Either you break your pursuit of the B-8s to avoid the bomb and the dominion ships escape, or your ships lose their engines for 18 seconds and the B-8s swing around and end it.  That's really the only dominion ship I don't make, or don't make in large numbers.  But Microed well they're deadly.  They're just cost prohibitive because of their troop ship status. 

But again, the reason I like the Dreadnoughts the way they are is the flavor they have with mixed tech.  And in 1v1 there's never a need, since you rarely get past cruisers.  So it works well in team play.  Not to mention the Dominion have a super  strong late game with either avatar.

Edit:  Well the Romulan Dreadnought is pretty mean, becuase it has more energy for the special.  I wasn't really being hit with critical shot as much as I should have, which would have made more of a difference for the other side.  It is a really powerful ship, but the mixed tech research helps slow things down so that you can only reasonably pump them out mid to late game.

posted on May 4th, 2009, 3:22 am

wow, serp i remeber saying that the feds need a ship that can pack a punch, and what did i get, a no