Directors Cut?

posted on March 9th, 2009, 9:51 pm

Hi Flops,

i know you guys played Armada 1 and i was wondering if you remembered a feature it had called Directors Cut that could be turned on in the options...

Basically it would make ships circle each other so you had better dog fighting which is better than what our current ships do which is just sit there?

is there anyway you could see if the engine still has it in there but its just disabled or using your own code bring that puppy back, would make the game a lot more realistic and prob make your hit/miss chances look more realistic.

thanks

posted on March 9th, 2009, 9:58 pm

Yes, it would look a lot more dynamic and "realistic", having ships move around in combat. For example the saber class is very small fast and maneuverable, but when it attacks it sits dead in space.

It reminds me of some western, where people would hide behind something and just shoot at each other, hoping they are the first to hit 

posted on March 9th, 2009, 10:44 pm

Of course, one of the major problems with this is if you don't want that ship to "dogfight" and get itself blown to bits when it moves into weapon range of a cube...

For instance, with the Sabres, I like to keep them just out of weapon range, but constantly circling the enemy... When not microing them, I keep them at max range, but with a dogfight ability, they would move in and out of weapon range...

Don't know if a compromise can be reached (it would look cool, but it has the potential to destroy gameplay  )

posted on March 9th, 2009, 11:22 pm

I remember that from Armada 1. I miss that feature. Just not as fun when they site there. I want to see more movement in combat as well.

posted on March 10th, 2009, 12:29 am

Of course, one of the major problems with this is if you don't want that ship to "dogfight" and get itself blown to bits when it moves into weapon range of a cube...

For instance, with the Sabres, I like to keep them just out of weapon range, but constantly circling the enemy... When not microing them, I keep them at max range, but with a dogfight ability, they would move in and out of weapon range...

Don't know if a compromise can be reached (it would look cool, but it has the potential to destroy gameplay  )

correct me if im wroing.
but I believe we can address this by keeping the option "off".
If you want the dogfights then switcch it on 

posted on March 10th, 2009, 12:48 am

Well, than it would only be good for single player against the AI, because I don't believe any group of people would play against eachother simply for the battles to look good by sacrificing the ability to command ships where you want them to go. Otherwise, might as well buy a movie someone made of moving FO ships, minus the cursor. (obviously IMO) 

However, different formations would be cool (not just an overall mode) and fix that problem .... remember clover leaf?

posted on March 10th, 2009, 5:51 am

Mark we've been over this several times before, You can't get Directors cut back in the way it was for Armada 1 anymore because of the changes to the AI pathing that was done by MAD DOC.

The only way I can realistically see it coming back would be for the default behaviour to be set to one of the attack patterns that were in the game / or custom ones created by the team.

but if they were to do it that way your better off waiting for them to create some formations and attack patterns that you can assign yourself, Perhaps like Strafing runs for Bird of Preys and Circle at Maximum range for Sabres.

posted on March 10th, 2009, 11:40 am

Mark we've been over this several times before, You can't get Directors cut back in the way it was for Armada 1 anymore because of the changes to the AI pathing that was done by MAD DOC.

The only way I can realistically see it coming back would be for the default behaviour to be set to one of the attack patterns that were in the game / or custom ones created by the team.

but if they were to do it that way your better off waiting for them to create some formations and attack patterns that you can assign yourself, Perhaps like Strafing runs for Bird of Preys and Circle at Maximum range for Sabres.

You cant say its not possible because of the way MADDOC changed pathing because pathing is a variable that can then be changed back so it is perfectly POSSIBLE!!!!

Im sure at one time we all said the AI learning to use cloak was impossible because of the way AI Scripts work but here you have it, cloaking AI...

So unless Doca Cola or Optec themselves come on here and say its impossible to me, im afraid it is perfectly POSSIBLE to bring it or something similar back...

P.S. On the Sabre attack range thing, technically your sabres would circle the craft they are firing at from their maximum range meaning its just saving you doing it yourself and stops them getting fired at... In fact any ship on yellow or red auto autonomy will move well within its weapon range, i tend to find if you stick to green they will always stay at their max range...

posted on March 10th, 2009, 12:34 pm

You cant say its not possible because of the way MADDOC changed pathing because pathing is a variable that can then be changed back so it is perfectly POSSIBLE!!!!

That argument makes no sense. Mad Doc had the source code. They made the game, so of course they had full access to everything. However, when they finished the game, they "locked" a lot of the code, so it became "hard-coded", so it IS impossible for average modding schmoes like us to do it.

The FlOps team, on the other hand, have already shown that they are able to do a lot more than us normal modders, so maybe...

posted on March 10th, 2009, 4:22 pm

That argument makes no sense. Mad Doc had the source code. They made the game, so of course they had full access to everything. However, when they finished the game, they "locked" a lot of the code, so it became "hard-coded", so it IS impossible for average modding schmoes like us to do it.

The FlOps team, on the other hand, have already shown that they are able to do a lot more than us normal modders, so maybe...

When i stated its a variable that can be changed i wasn't referring to the engine that could be but the fact pathing still exists in the game (hence a ship moving from a-b) and pathing itself is controlled by a file like an .odf so can be changed just like the AI..

Also you can say all you want the engine is closed but Flops has already shown us that they can force their own code to run on top of the engine... FLOPS uses many classlabels that they have created on their own on top of the "closed engine classlabels"....

posted on March 11th, 2009, 4:43 am

Just wait for Optec to reply to the thread and you'll understand.

posted on March 11th, 2009, 9:09 am

Just wait for Optec to reply to the thread and you'll understand.

don't tell me ill understand like i dont understand... you dont even understand the concept of how a screen resolution works (no i havent forgotten that conversation at your house)...

i understand ffull well what MADDOC did to nerf directors cut, just like ship seperation... But i also remember what Flops did to the game...

[Atlantis]

posted on March 11th, 2009, 10:26 am

Last edited by Atlantis on March 11th, 2009, 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Well, you have misunderstood at least three posts in this one thread already... So I doubt you understand "full well".

#1)

Mark we've been over this several times before, You can't get Directors cut back in the way it was for Armada 1 anymore because of the changes to the AI pathing that was done by MAD DOC.

You cant say its not possible because of the way MADDOC changed pathing because pathing is a variable that can then be changed back so it is perfectly POSSIBLE!!!!

There were changes to AI pathing made by MadDoc between Armada 1 and Armada 2, in which they did remove some features. These things are now either hardcoded or gone. MadDoc MADE THE GAME; they are not just modders like us, they had the source codes. So when someone like me, who's been modding for a loooong time, says this, you'll find that I do know what I'm talking about. It is different with FlOps, as... well, see #2.

#2)

The FlOps team, on the other hand, have already shown that they are able to do a lot more than us normal modders, so maybe...

Also you can say all you want the engine is closed but Flops has already shown us that they can force their own code to run on top of the engine... FLOPS uses many classlabels that they have created on their own on top of the "closed engine classlabels"...

You'll find we're saying the same thing here, so you don't need to begin with "you can say all you want [...], but", because you're not actually disagreeing with me (you just think you are, for some reason).

#3)

Just wait for Optec to reply to the thread and you'll understand.

don't tell me ill understand like i dont understand...

No, you don't understand, none of us do, because we don't know the exact details behind what exactly MadDoc did, and we also don't know what the FlOps team is and isn't capable of, even with their extra skill. We will only find out when Optec posts, and then we will all understand. Easy. =)

Finally, you don't need to try to make the other guy look stupid, bringing up stuff from real life, to try to make yourself look smarter. It's a low shot at best, not exactly mature.

posted on March 11th, 2009, 2:48 pm

Thanks for the input Atlantis,

Mark we weren't discussing " Screen Resolution " If you remember the convo so well you would realise it was to do with Aspect Ratio lol.

As for the Changes for the Pathing, I remember a long time ago back when A2 was first released there was a lot of work on getting Directors Cut back into the game. The problem was that Mad Doc completely Removed the Directors cut feature from the AI pathing system.

Now I can't remember the exact specifics of how they did it but I remember they justified it for the ability to gain formations and attack patterns.

I also remember a while back me and a few friends did try to restore Directors Cut to the game and every possible change without editing the source code didn't work because of the new path files or something along those lines.

As I said earlier in the topic the best way to get it to work would be to :

"The only way I can realistically see it coming back would be for the default behaviour to be set to one of the attack patterns that were in the game / or custom ones created by the team."

but you don't have to agree, Just don't act like a Cock.

posted on March 11th, 2009, 6:55 pm

i have played a bit to get that feature back in armada 2. it basically is, as in the formations menu you can select an attack pattern that is exactly the movement you have from armada 1. and yes, it is a big difference in gameplay, as ships would start moving in to attack other vessels and so loose their advantage of long range weaponry plus it makes your ships harder to control. i'd really like to have that back in fleet operations too, but it didn't work out so well when i tested it in fleet operations..