Cloak for Capture

posted on June 12th, 2009, 9:18 pm

I was thinking, "you know, why not use the basic Replaceweapon used for constructors for captured vessels?" I mean, wouldn't the Rommies outfit a Federation Vessel with a cloak when captured? And wouldn't they outfit a Klingon vessel with an improved cloak (same goes for Breen Cruiser )

Comment Below!

posted on June 12th, 2009, 9:36 pm

just like the romulans did with the prometheus in 'message in a bottle'....NOT?
technically that would be possible, even without a replaceweapn

posted on June 12th, 2009, 9:40 pm

Well, what I'm really wondering is if it would slow up the loading or not (and the roms in M.I.A.B didn't have enough time to build one and outfit the ship to carry one, and they would need 3! ... no offense). I'll make one myself even if you guy's don't do it, and did you guys use one for constructors? If not, then how did you do it?

posted on June 12th, 2009, 9:41 pm

If I remember correctly, cloaks have to be closely calibrated to the body of the vessel they are put in and it might not be possible to add one to a vessel not designed to cloak.

posted on June 12th, 2009, 9:44 pm

well hey, the original enterprise did it,

as did the enterprise d, and that was a phase cloak,

btw, i think itd be cool to see a special fed ship get a phase cloak, since they developed the technology, maybye a section 31 ship, or maybye a warp in pegisus?

posted on June 12th, 2009, 9:44 pm

and they would need 3!

point taken
the idea doesn't sound too bad. some input on this would be great, as long as you don't suggest to put quantum torpedos in a b'rel

posted on June 12th, 2009, 9:47 pm

point taken
the idea doesn't sound too bad. some input would be great, as long as you don't suggest to put quantum torpedos in a b'rel

How about a Quantum torpedo shaped liked a B'rel?

posted on June 12th, 2009, 9:55 pm

Thanks for backing me up, Ray.

@Psycho

Actually, only normal Romulan vessels (ones powered by singularites,) require such fine tuning. Otherwise, just hook one up to a toaster and render a city invisible .

Now I must make another request, Wheelchiar Man Away! :wheelchair:

posted on June 12th, 2009, 10:03 pm

I think it makes sense, for them to install a cloak on it, but maybye for a small cost?

but then if its captured bacl it would retain that cloak,

however, as it is now, if you capture a excelsior 2 as the rommies, you cant use the acs torpedo, but if you capture a romulan ship, you can use the cloak, however in that same argument, most kligon and romulan ships have cloaks and special weapons, which also begs the question, are non cloaking races at a disadvantage when races such as the romulans and kligons, in effect have two special weapons, and not just one, especialy when cloaking can play such a pivitol role in scouting, fleeing, hit and run, and going behind enemy line attacks, especially when cloaking research is very costly, and to set up a sensor net can be very difficult, and when your attacking, with no sensors to protect you, you are vulnerable to being picked off by a hit and run cloak attack, especially when you cannot ping cloaked units while building and it costs,

which also begs the question, how much od a disadvantedge is it to no cloaking races? it forces them to be on a more defensive side from the begining, not as agresive, and not able to explore, and expand to valuable resources areas, as able because in part, a small kligon force can decloak, and attack and get back out, before even one kligon ship hardly has a scratch, and this early in the game, it is to costly and difficult to get up sensors with cloak, and adequate ships to defend, because as you know, alot of the money is going to the sensor net to detect cloak, and attack is inmpossible because the enemy knows all of your movments because they can have cloaked ships all through your base, and easily set up a hit an run attack,


so after that, i think installing a cloak should cost money on captured ships, but it should retain if recaptured,

also i support a pegasus warp in, or section 31 phase cloak, but if something else wants to be done, then okay

but then hears my question, cloak is a big advantage for the kligion and rommies IN ADDITION to all of there other stuff

what is the feds and dominions big advatage? (im kinda excluding the borg cus there just......... different) the feds cant cloak like that, and neither can dominion, excluding that very easily destryoed breen ship,

now dont misunderstand me, and please dont accuse me, im not saying that dominion and fed ships should be able to cloak, feds have a slight argument with phase cloak, but in all honest im not sure how much id want that

what im saying is shouldnt the dominion and feds get somthing like the cloak to all of there ships, NOT A CLOAK, but in the same way the cloak is an additioanl special weapon to the roms and klingons, it seems like the dominion and feds should have somthing to even the odds, and i dont see it.........

Is cloak taken into account for balance formulas?

posted on June 12th, 2009, 10:15 pm

............

also i support a pegasus warp in, or section 31 phase cloak, but if something else wants to be done, then okay............


what im saying is shouldnt the dominion and feds get somthing like the cloak to all of there ships, NOT A CLOAK, but in the same way the cloak is an additioanl special weapon to the roms and klingons, it seems like the dominion and feds should have somthing to even the odds, and i dont see it.........

Is cloak taken into account for balance formulas? ...............

It’s a pity we don’t have a gray mode for the Fed’ scouts that could deactivate their shields weapons and engines but would let it be undetectable to enemy ships, hence for all intensive purposes be cloaked.   

posted on June 12th, 2009, 10:31 pm

Ray has a bit of a point, perhaps.

Technically, the 'counter point' would be the dominion's ability to mine supplies (so that if done right, means that you never ever have to buy supplies, and in a long game, that can save you tens of thousands of Dilithium and Tritanium) while the Federation has their Warp In.  But I personally believe that warpin is counteracted by the Cloaking Station, Intelligence Center, and that Klingon Building that makes already hard-hitting Klingon forces hit even harder.

The question is what truely would be the 'balance'?  Cloak is an integral feature of the race, with wide-ranging tactical repercussions.  The 'wide ranging feature of the race' for the Dominion?  Cloned personnel.  With the Officer/Crew resource turned off, that's hard to represent unless there's a way to make recrewing done by the dominion instant.

For the Federation, it's creative application of science in strange and unusual ways.  The very thing that turned a baby on the galactic scale into one of the greatest forces in the quadrant.  The only thing that could possibly be done to represent that would be more special abilities on them, which I'm not sure is really a good thing.

I'll have to think more on this try to come up with other ideas on it.

posted on June 13th, 2009, 4:25 am

What if, as a more subtle change, you get any special abilities equipped to the ship at the time of the cpature?

posted on June 13th, 2009, 9:53 pm

How about a Quantum torpedo shaped liked a B'rel?

Could already be cannon, you know....

What if, as a more subtle change, you get any special abilities equipped to the ship at the time of the cpature?

Now that would make sense, but I'm not sure how it could be done. Short of re-doing all the research so that it actually replaces every ship you have with onw with the weapon when it's researched.
Or better still, research that replaced the shipyard with one that builds ships equipped with that special weapon. That would give the desired effect AND make more sense overall

posted on June 13th, 2009, 10:44 pm

just like the romulans did with the prometheus in 'message in a bottle'....NOT?
technically that would be possible, even without a replaceweapn

Probably not the best example, they hadn't even left Federation space yet. You'd need time to refit something.

posted on June 14th, 2009, 4:06 am

You have some really nice points, Ray!

I'm completely certain that cloak is taken into account in their balance formulas.  If you take a Romulan ship with equal stats/weapon range to a ship from the Federation, you'll see that the cost of the vessel is considerably higher.  The cost increase seems to be about 10-15% more.  The only thing I can think of that would be a major contributor to that would be the cloak.  Klingon ships have a cloak, but it's sort of a motel 6 cloak compared to the Romulan's Marriot.  It basically does the same job, while costing a lot less.  Comes with a free continental breakfast, too!

As far as balance, Feds are still really tough, because of warp in and canaverals, which are the new Norways.  Now that most ships are more expensive by 50-150 dilithium from 3.0.5a, free ships with 360 degree firing arcs are even more important, because everyone is fielding fewer ships in the game now.  And Sensor blackout just kills.  It's range is 400 (short range), and I'm pretty certain that's just the radius, so the diameter would be 800, which is long range.  That's a huge circle.

Collision is pretty powerful for the Dominion, but the ships also cost a lot more, I'm not 100% sure where they lie at the moment in terms of balancing.  But once a ship decloaks, it runs the risk of being collided into, so who knows.

Also, I think you can still have a researched weapon on a ship you take over, because I thought that was taken away early in 3.0.  At least I thought it was.  My guess is that you don't get the special because if you steal ships with certain abilities, it could create some overpowered combinations with your own race's tech.  I suppose you do that in mulitplayer anyway, but you also have to coordinate together, as well.

I don't know.  I don't make the sandbox, I just play in it.