Cardassians in Fleet Ops

posted on January 20th, 2009, 2:11 am

It's possible they could have rebuilt their military within 20 years. Afterall, Jelico said, "Cardassians are like a pack of wolves." They circle their prey exploiting weakness and then they strike.

[Anonymous]

posted on January 20th, 2009, 2:12 am

Last edited by Anonymous on January 20th, 2009, 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

It's best we accept the Cardassians are not going to be playable and are strictly going to be an NPC. They were an NPC race in A1 (play the second Romulan mission if you don't remember) and they worked out rather well with the bare bones tech tree there. Honestly I would rather have more NPC races then playable races; too many playable races disrupts balance.

ok. so you want them to be npc cos as an "additional race" they would disrupt balance.
Shall we then consider noxter too under that "too many races disrupting balance" category. and then throw in the Iconians and Ciadan- all consequently NPCs by your statement. We kinda shot down all future plans for FO right there. lol

If we are building a Star trek game, and indeed too many - meaning number of playable - races is to be part of the argument pro or contra, then certainly the weird 8472 wannabe stand-ins - the Noxter --would by your own argument be the first ones axed.... (but I think you forgot this argument when you were rooting for the Noxter be introduced.. apparently no excessive race there  )

Besides, we are asking for the FO cardassians, since we know our modders are very good. Cardies if included would be done very well, and balancing would certainly not be anything to be fearful or have reservations on. They've already shown how good they are in that arena.

as far as them being npc in a1, they were quickly introduced in a2 as playable due to fan demand - since almost everyone who played A1 wanted more of the cardies since they were done well in A1. (the A2 fiasco is another story.. heck A2 itself was second rate when compared to A1). We still see the same support for the Cardassians as a playable race here too.

So when storyline problems are now worked out (either as dominion 3rd avatar or cardy separate race), strength and tech tree adaptations are worked out, NPC status itself contradicts most arguments being levied against cardassians yet while NPC is planned those same arguments are being used(to keep the cardies out), and even units are being worked out, what else is now left to keep the cardies out- other than a dogmatic stubbornness?

posted on January 20th, 2009, 2:56 am

Heh, I guess it's just my taste then. I would much rather play as a side using a massive swarm of tiny bugs (aka the Noxter), then go back and play as the boring Cardassians or godly 8472 anyday. The Noxter's play style has never been in armada even though people still seem to think they are a clone of 8472 just because they are making references to V2 which is obsolete. Tell me, did 8472 use massive, huge swarms of little tiny weak bugs that bash and melee their foes? Didn't think so. That is why I want the Noxter as a playable race, because they bring something new to the battlefield. Cardassians could be implemented differently into Fleet Ops, though in the end they would still be like the main 4 races with new flavor just like in A2.

posted on January 20th, 2009, 3:00 am

If you want a different race that attacks melee-style and uses a large swarm, use the Swarm from Voyager. They attack in a same way that the Noxter probably would and their language cannot be translated.

[Anonymous]

posted on January 20th, 2009, 3:03 am

Last edited by Anonymous on January 20th, 2009, 3:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Heh, I guess it's just my taste then. I would much rather play as a side using a massive swarm of tiny bugs (aka the Noxter), then go back and play as the boring Cardassians or godly 8472 anyday. The Noxter's play style has never been in armada even though people still seem to think they are a clone of 8472 just because they are making references to V2 which is obsolete. Tell me, did 8472 use massive, huge swarms of little tiny weak bugs that bash and melee their foes? Didn't think so. That is why I want the Noxter as a playable race, because they bring something new to the battlefield. Cardassians could be implemented differently into Fleet Ops, though in the end they would still be like the main 4 races with new flavor just like in A2.

I agree with you in regards to preference of a race over the other. hell i dont ever like playing as feds. Still not an argument to keep them out. as surely as teh feds play like the dominion/klings/roms, we dont find them boring either. In fact from what is being suggested we see the cardies emerging as the most unique and interesting of the alpha sides - including the gameplay we like from the feds/roms/klings, but with the interesting spin on refits and mixed tech and rebuilding strategies that will make them much more interesting than the others. - at ;east the argument of one more boring alpha quad power will not stand for their gameplay:)
In effect the initial argument of additional race throwing off balance becomes completely irrelevant

posted on January 20th, 2009, 8:51 am

I don't see how the Cardassians could be boring or throw off the game balance at all. They were one of the most notorious enemies introduced into Trek and though they may not have the strongest ships around I think there would be a way to make up for with special abilities.

posted on January 20th, 2009, 1:39 pm

Meh, well having the Cardassians as NPCs would make it be like they (and the Dominion) were in stock A1. They had a simple techtree, but were kinda fun to play against. It implied that there was more to the galaxy than just the four major races, but didn't need to make every race playable in full.

The thing is, there are reasons for any race to be (or not be) in it. For example, the Dominion... in a1 it was just a few stray ships, fine. But now, with Sisko in the wormhole, i'm guessing he'd stop their war fleets from coming back to the Alpha Quadrant... so why are THEY in FlOps? (I'm not saying they shouldn't be, i'm just bringing the point up).

Besides, almost every mod has the Cardassians in it, I agree we need something new and different. I'd like to see races that haven't been done yet, like the Talarians, Chodak, or even the Ferengi could be interesting...

posted on January 20th, 2009, 1:44 pm

The thing is, there are reasons for any race to be (or not be) in it. For example, the Dominion... in a1 it was just a few stray ships, fine. But now, with Sisko in the wormhole, i'm guessing he'd stop their war fleets from coming back to the Alpha Quadrant... so why are THEY in FlOps? (I'm not saying they shouldn't be, i'm just bringing the point up).

The Prophets have no concept of linear time because of where they live and since Sisko lives there now, someone would likely have to go and tell him the Dominion are coming. That could cause a bit of a problem.

[Anonymous]

posted on January 20th, 2009, 4:15 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on January 20th, 2009, 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Meh, well having the Cardassians as NPCs would make it be like they (and the Dominion) were in stock A1. They had a simple techtree, but were kinda fun to play against. It implied that there was more to the galaxy than just the four major races, but didn't need to make every race playable in full.

The thing is, there are reasons for any race to be (or not be) in it. For example, the Dominion... in a1 it was just a few stray ships, fine. But now, with Sisko in the wormhole, i'm guessing he'd stop their war fleets from coming back to the Alpha Quadrant... so why are THEY in FlOps? (I'm not saying they shouldn't be, i'm just bringing the point up).

Besides, almost every mod has the Cardassians in it, I agree we need something new and different. I'd like to see races that haven't been done yet, like the Talarians, Chodak, or even the Ferengi could be interesting...

interesting you mentioned the Chodak

I remember first seeing them in "echoes fromthe past" for Sega genesis back in 92.
Then there was a comp game that was exactly the same as echoes from the past - but this was for nintendo.
And the chodak done in this one was different yet.

weird.

yeah, th Chodak were cool.
But give me Cardies first any day.

Besides, even though most mods have the Cardies in them, most have the borg adn klings and roms and feds too. Natural - since the cardies are as integral as the Roms or klings.

But our FO team are a cut above most mods (so far ), and we would certainly like to see what they do for the Cardies.
From what we're discussing here, if accepted as an outline, would be quite different from any of the other mods, making the Cardies interesting still.  

**Remember this thread is for the cardies in FO. Either as a separate race or as a 3rd avatar of the Dominion***

posted on January 20th, 2009, 6:56 pm

or even the Ferengi could be interesting...

What shall these do? sell out the enemy?

posted on January 20th, 2009, 7:02 pm

"Bribe" would probably come in handy...

posted on January 20th, 2009, 7:18 pm

I'm for the 3rd avatar option myself for the following few reasons which I'll explain below:

1) Judging by the technology and classes of ships featured in FO I am assuming the mod is post-Dominion War and the Dominion faction is remnants of the Dominion still in the Alpha Quadrant. Therefore the Cardassian Union is still a conquered mess from the war and it could even be possible that it would have been divided and administered by the allies from the war (UFP, Romulans and Klingons) in a fashion similar to the divide of Germany post Second World War, although this has never been mentioned in canon.

2) If the game is taking into account the storylines of Armada 1 and 2 then the Cardassians have already rebuilt and re-armed... to be conquered by the Klingons so my point still stands; are they in the position to wage war?

3) The 3rd avatar option would mean that like the Breen faction, the Cardassian units represent forces still fighting alongside the Dominion as apposed to a completely separate faction with their own goals (the main goal of the Union at this time to repair and re-arm not wage war).

Now obviously if the game is NOT set when I think it is and the Union is at a strength at which it could be as capable a threat as the other factions then all the better, I mean the more races means more diversity and specialisation of players in multiplayer (and a more fun experience therefore). I suppose it's up to the mod team and how much they are willing to do for the Cardassians. If they feel a third avatar will do them justice then I'm all for that option, otherwise leave them to NPC's.

However if a third avatar is added for the Dominion, it would only be fair to add another avatar to the other factions, but perhaps I'm just getting a little ahead of myself

Just my own opinion and I'd like to hear your views on it!

posted on January 20th, 2009, 9:41 pm

I'd really love to see the Cardassians in FO...
They're one of the 6 or so real major races in Star Trek, having a distinct culture, interesting society and very unique ship design.
Of course, as others stated before, it's the developer's choice how or wheter to implement them, but to me it just doesn't feel right to waste one of these few major races of the Star Trek universe by making it a simple npc race.

posted on January 21st, 2009, 12:38 am

Birth of the Federation had the Ferengi as a fully-playable race and, due to the nature of their business, it could be possible to have the playable in FO and still have them as an NPC ship stealer.

posted on January 21st, 2009, 1:38 am

Birth of the Federation had the Ferengi as a fully-playable race and, due to the nature of their business, it could be possible to have the playable in FO and still have them as an NPC ship stealer.

Now that I think about it the Ferengi would definitely be a good addition to Fleet Ops. They were my favorite side in BotF due to their massive economic income. I think they would definitely play unique compared to the other sides, where's the Cardassians would simply come off as another fed/klingon/romulan clone as I've said before. Sadly though the odds of the Ferengi building up a capable warfleet (BotF aside) in ST is very unlikely. This does open up possibilities though, as the Ferengi could have very few ships and rely on boarding and capturing enemy ships, and because of their wise use of resources they could generate good income. They would definitely be a good ally in a 2 v 2 match as extra resource support for the other player , though I sadly don't see them being able to take on the other races 1 on 1.