Cardassians?

[MrXT]

posted on November 28th, 2011, 5:16 pm

Last edited by MrXT on November 28th, 2011, 7:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The fact that the Order ships were upgraded versions of a Cardassian Military ship Dukat already knew about does not support it being designed by the Order nor the fact that it's new.

The feds had never seen a keldon before that episode in ds9 and they had previously had a war with them where they saw many galors, this and the evidence from memory alpha which is gathered from sources in startrek episodes this is far more evidence than some blind factless claim that the keldon is the older ship. So you go ahead and continue to argue but ill pay no more attention till you actually provide some proof/source instea of trying to discredit actual proof gathered from startrek episodes....in case you haven't yet realized but startrek isn't real and the only proof we can get is from startrek episodes and whats said in them.

posted on November 28th, 2011, 8:11 pm

The feds had never seen a keldon before that episode in ds9 and they had previously had a war with them where they saw many galors, this and the evidence from memory alpha which is gathered from sources in startrek episodes this is far more evidence than some blind factless claim that the keldon is the older ship. So you go ahead and continue to argue but ill pay no more attention till you actually provide some proof/source instea of trying to discredit actual proof gathered from startrek episodes....in case you haven't yet realized but startrek isn't real and the only proof we can get is from startrek episodes and whats said in them.

Don't blame Tyler, he didn't start the fire 

posted on November 28th, 2011, 8:21 pm

Don't blame Tyler, he didn't start the fire   :ermm:

I dunno what your talking about.

posted on November 29th, 2011, 12:12 am

I personally can't see why a few members can't get together and do a full race mod for FO using the available material there are Dan's Cardassian race and my COE Cardassian Race, just one of them is more than enough to do one. And so the members who did this wouldn't need to be able to model or texture, just be able to make a GUI and odf/tt/sprite work.

posted on November 29th, 2011, 2:19 am

I personally can't see why a few members can't get together and do a full race mod for FO using the available material there are Dan's Cardassian race and my COE Cardassian Race, just one of them is more than enough to do one. And so the members who did this wouldn't need to be able to model or texture, just be able to make a GUI and odf/tt/sprite work.

It very hard getting an online game of mids going atm its hard enough getting a normal game going since many have left and won't return till a patch comes but the problem with just adding a new race is balance that's why its prefered its officially added to fleetops.

[Tyler]

posted on November 29th, 2011, 9:47 am

Last edited by Tyler on November 29th, 2011, 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

The feds had never seen a keldon before that episode in ds9 and they had previously had a war with them where they saw many galors, this and the evidence from memory alpha which is gathered from sources in startrek episodes this is far more evidence than some blind factless claim that the keldon is the older ship. So you go ahead and continue to argue but ill pay no more attention till you actually provide some proof/source instea of trying to discredit actual proof gathered from startrek episodes....in case you haven't yet realized but startrek isn't real and the only proof we can get is from startrek episodes and whats said in them.

How do you know the Keldon was never used? Did you see the war? Memory Alpha never said they weren't used and canon never said when they weren't. Dukat's line, however, is proof it isn't a ship of the Order; he never knew they had ships (since they're not allowed them), but did know of the Keldon and that they were supposed to be weaker and/or slower than what they were.

By 'not new', I was opposing the idea that it was only just designed rather than the idea of it being younger than the Galor. Being designed after the Galor doesn't mean new, just not as old.

You're bringing up the 'Star Trek' isn't real bit? That's practically an admission of defeat...

posted on November 29th, 2011, 3:53 pm

Let's calm down here. While the Cardassians had a strong role in the DS9 series, in the FO timeline they are only a minor power. A power which has turned away from the Dominion and has had it's military/resources drained by the Klingons/dominion.

They play a role in the introduction of one of the new races to be introduced, but their weakened state IMO removes them as a viable stand-alone race. In the future they will be added as a NPC race and that is the best solution possible.

As for the debate which is the newer design (Galor/Keldon) Memory Alpha states that the Keldon was introduced later into the series than the Galor so let's go by the assumption that the keldon is the newer class.

posted on November 29th, 2011, 4:23 pm

How do you know the Keldon was never used? Did you see the war? Memory Alpha never said they weren't used and canon never said when they weren't. Dukat's line, however, is proof it isn't a ship of the Order; he never knew they had ships (since they're not allowed them), but did know of the Keldon and that they were supposed to be weaker and/or slower than what they were.

By 'not new', I was opposing the idea that it was only just designed rather than the idea of it being younger than the Galor. Being designed after the Galor doesn't mean new, just not as old.

You're bringing up the 'Star Trek' isn't real bit? That's practically an admission of defeat...

"Newess" depends on what point in time you are referring to.  If you do not deny that the keldon is "newer" than the galor, then all we can say is by the time of the dominion war, they were newish, but by FO, they would be very old. 

According to the tech manual, the keldon is merely a variant/refit of the galor. 

posted on November 29th, 2011, 9:01 pm

How do you know the Keldon was never used? Did you see the war? Memory Alpha never said they weren't used and canon never said when they weren't. Dukat's line, however, is proof it isn't a ship of the Order; he never knew they had ships (since they're not allowed them), but did know of the Keldon and that they were supposed to be weaker and/or slower than what they were.

By 'not new', I was opposing the idea that it was only just designed rather than the idea of it being younger than the Galor. Being designed after the Galor doesn't mean new, just not as old.

You're bringing up the 'Star Trek' isn't real bit? That's practically an admission of defeat...

Still you go on without providing facts, maybe you should just go read the memory alpha page on it, it provides sources, so far you have done nothing other than argue the opposite without any basis, you have already been beaten in this argument so give up and read up on some facts before entering another argument in future.

posted on November 29th, 2011, 11:45 pm

It very hard getting an online game of mids going atm its hard enough getting a normal game going since many have left and won't return till a patch comes but the problem with just adding a new race is balance that's why its prefered its officially added to fleetops.

Not to cause issues or anything but from what I have read, the Cardassian's won't be a major race for various reasons, the Dev's have made that decision so really doing them as a mod is the only other option, otherwise this thread is going nowhere fast!

Yes the Balancing could be tricky, but get one or two good odf modders on board and I think it could be done to an acceptable standard. I say rather than thinking "It's too hard let's keep pestering the Dev's" why not do a mod if a full race is really wanted. Those members who want to take it on could just grab Dan's A2 mod and use it's content to do a FO mod for the Cardassians. I am 90% sure Dan wouldn't have an issue at all with you guys using it and I think it would be a big hit and those who develop it will be heroes to many people who don't have the skills to do it themselves.

I would give it a shot, however I have more than enough projects to do and I'm more of a modeller and texturer, ODF's and balancing aren't my thing and bore me.

posted on November 30th, 2011, 10:40 am

I'd like to see the cardassians as thier own race possibly with a So'Na commander (as another defeated power post Dominion war)
I'd like to see Nor stations as a well aromored alternate mining staton with weapons making small mining outposts a better tactical option. bonuses for building in 3s would be good as well (say a discount at shipyards or three varients on Galor and Keldon classes that provide complimentary light buffs when sent out in groups ie shield weapons and speed.
Go spoonheads

posted on November 30th, 2011, 11:44 am

Why are people arguing over wheither one ship is older than another when the internet is full of porn. It DOSENT matter, whatever that website says is probably true end of.

posted on November 30th, 2011, 1:38 pm

Not to cause issues or anything but from what I have read, the Cardassian's won't be a major race for various reasons, the Dev's have made that decision so really doing them as a mod is the only other option, otherwise this thread is going nowhere fast!

Yes the Balancing could be tricky, but get one or two good odf modders on board and I think it could be done to an acceptable standard. I say rather than thinking "It's too hard let's keep pestering the Dev's" why not do a mod if a full race is really wanted. Those members who want to take it on could just grab Dan's A2 mod and use it's content to do a FO mod for the Cardassians. I am 90% sure Dan wouldn't have an issue at all with you guys using it and I think it would be a big hit and those who develop it will be heroes to many people who don't have the skills to do it themselves.

I would give it a shot, however I have more than enough projects to do and I'm more of a modeller and texturer, ODF's and balancing aren't my thing and bore me.

It wouldnt be easy at all, not only would these devs have to balance the cardasians but they would also have to be sure other races ships were not OP or UP vs them.

posted on November 30th, 2011, 1:45 pm

As for Cardassians being ingame, according to the guide, Major NPC races will be practically a smaller but fully-functional race, including all necessary things such as mining stations, starbases, shipyards, and combat and non-combat ships. They will have more stuff than any avatar races like the Breen... So I'd say just wait and see, you'll probably like how they turn out anyway.

As for the plans for the single player campaigns, Armada is not a multiplayer-only game, so why should a mod be multiplayer-only? FleetOps may have concentrated on that aspect so far, but single player campaigns have always been planned since Day 1.

It's obvious from what was shown and said onscreen that the Keldon was not a brand new class (and not designed by the Order), but is merely a newer variant of the Galor; essentially a "Galor Plus". Both are oldish designs, upgraded to modern spec weapons etc (upgraded more so in the hands of the Order), but still limited by the flaws in the out-of-date design.
Quite a common theory (THEORY. Not canon, but makes sense) is that the Cardassians are one step behind the other races in terms of designs. The Galor was designed to counter the Excelsior and K'Tinga classes, yet by the time it made it to production, the Nebula and Vor'cha were appearing on the scene. The Cardassians tried to counter that by hacking the Galor design up and making Keldons, but it wasn't enough, so they decided to instead go with using Galors in wolfpacks.

[Tyler]

posted on December 1st, 2011, 2:16 pm

Last edited by Tyler on December 1st, 2011, 2:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Still you go on without providing facts, maybe you should just go read the memory alpha page on it, it provides sources, so far you have done nothing other than argue the opposite without any basis, you have already been beaten in this argument so give up and read up on some facts before entering another argument in future.

I'm the one using lines from the show that prove it isn't an Order ship, and nothing in canon (or MA) states is exclusive to the Order. I'm the one using canon, namely Dukat's knowledge of a ship that (if it was an Obsidion Order-exclusive) he would have never seen before.

You're the one who isn't providing anything to prove the Order designed it.