Build Que

posted on May 30th, 2011, 6:29 pm

This will no doubt be very controversial.

I was thinking why would anyone be able to see what vessels are qued up for construction on a shipyard. It makes sense that the one currently under construction would be, but why all the following vessels?

Im proposing that enemies not be able to see what is qued beyond the one being constructed. Observers and allies should still be able to.

I believe this would put even more emphasis on scouting to really know what your enemy is fielding and require you the player to watch enemy shipyards more closely. I think this will be more beneficial to gameplay by putting a bit of guess work about what your enemy is going to do. It doesnt make sense to me that I could see what my enemy is doing before he does it and then counter him before he implements it, Id rather see it happening in the field. For instance my enemy could que an intrepid up but do a monsoon mix, as the enemy I could only guess at the true intentions and try to field a counter to only what is being built.

I also think that this would be beneficial for "spying" abilities. An example would be: placing a spy on an enemy shipyard then it reveals the whole que.

Just my thoughts- let the flaming begin 

posted on May 30th, 2011, 6:31 pm

I can see some sense in this.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 6:33 pm

Me too, I actually really agree with this.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 6:35 pm

It might make some sense in large (4v4) games, where it is not necessarily needed to counter things before they come on the field, but in games that are smaller, planning ahead is a crucial feature.

Seeing a whole queue, making 'fake' queues, and determining structure of fleets before they begin to be totaled up has an enormous impact in Fleet Operations. Being unable to see past the first unit makes it very difficult to plan fleets or tech ups for factions, especially as ships are large investments in FO and take a long time to build. I am very strongly against this I am afraid.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 6:36 pm

i think the idea is realistic, but could have issues about countering a spam. part of smashing down annoying spam units is knowing they are coming and being ready. if u dont see it coming and it crushes you in 1 battle (which is possible) then you wont be in a resource position to counter them.

if the idea does get implemented then the idea of a spy letting you see the whole queue is good.

ninjad by dom cos my wireless dropped

posted on May 30th, 2011, 6:54 pm

didnt think enemies could see full build list (rly need to play online more)

posted on May 30th, 2011, 7:25 pm

I like this idea too.

Also this is in A2 General.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 7:53 pm

well i also do think that it makes 100% logical sense.......and im not sure you can argue against the fact that ....why would your opponent be able to see what ships you have in the queues ,as it would be stored in the ship yards computer core .......and if your opponent can "scan" or "hack" the ship yard computer core then would you not also be able to see how much tri,di, supply they have....................BUT on the other hand this is a RTS game and Dominus does have a very real point. but you could still argue that it does not affect balance because i could never fill my Q and thus your opponent can only plan for whats on the field ...kinda...........well perhaps some day there might be an advanced option to turn on/off ship yard "scan"/"hack" lol 

posted on May 30th, 2011, 8:17 pm

if u dont fill your queue you have to put in more effort to make sure u are always building.

like if u put ships in the quue that you dont intend to build, takes loads of effort, but fools the enemy.

posted on May 30th, 2011, 8:50 pm

good point Myles but for a race like the dominion ....this can not be done as easy as rom fed and kling. and this also give the borg player an advantage as they have no Q to fill.

posted on May 31st, 2011, 11:07 pm

It might make some sense in large (4v4) games, where it is not necessarily needed to counter things before they come on the field, but in games that are smaller, planning ahead is a crucial feature.

Seeing a whole queue, making 'fake' queues, and determining structure of fleets before they begin to be totaled up has an enormous impact in Fleet Operations. Being unable to see past the first unit makes it very difficult to plan fleets or tech ups for factions, especially as ships are large investments in FO and take a long time to build. I am very strongly against this I am afraid.

Well Dom you have a point however I dont believe it will be that drastic. I would expect for instance: If I saw an intrepid being built I would go support vessel. Now my opponent is no doubt watching my build aswell so they could assume Im going to counter and que up a counter to my support vessel, when I see that coming out I would try to counter that vessel. Id expect to see the cat and mouse game much like this, resulting in well mixed fleets rather than 1 to 2 of unit types throughout. Knowing tech tree limitations would also reveal a players intention, for instance if I see a battle yard with a sang qued up but no armory, it is safe to assume sang spam and build accordingly.

I really believe that this change would allow for advanced planning and thinking  - like chess, trying to build 3 steps ahead of your opponent - if you can get your opponent to react to your build then you have control. Also I dont believe spam would be as advantageous because without for knowledge of what is coming after the initial build, a player would have to build the counter to it. Even if you try to be a step ahead and force your enemy to change from spamming and they dont - the soft counter system is supposed to allow for a small degree failure, giving you enough time to build something that will work. Provided you are scouting and are watching the shipyards.

Cheers

posted on June 1st, 2011, 8:36 am

problem there is that say you're borg, you see 1 intrepid and build a dodeca, but they had 1 intrep and 3 mons queued up. your dodeca is gonna auto target the mons and do half damage. the borg dodeca is worth several fed ships. yet if u counter 1, they can switch to another ship that reverses the counter. this problem will be made worse if we cant see enemy queue.

posted on June 1st, 2011, 8:40 am

Isn't that the point of strategy? Sure it would be complete chaos for the unexperieced player, but a good player could use his head do just fine. I guess the main problem is that no one wants to give up the exploit

posted on June 1st, 2011, 8:46 am

Isn't that the point of strategy? Sure it would be complete chaos for the unexperieced player, but a good player could use his head do just fine. I guess the main problem is that no one wants to give up the exploit

its not an exploit, its part of the game balance. in a small game (1v1 etc) 1 battle can decide the game. 1 defeat and its game over. each ship is expensive. and if u have 2 equally skilled players and 1 loses 2 or 3 ships in the first couple battles its probably gg. each ship is worth so much you cant afford to get stomped in the early battles. an annoying spam can crush you if u dont counter it. part of having counters to annoying spams is that the player can scout and see it coming. if they cant see your spam coming, then your spam is fully effective for the first battle. which can be enough to end the game. you have to have a chance to see the spam coming, so you can counter it. if they implemented this idea they would probably have to reduce the individuality of ships, making them all more similar, with less diversity and less counters.

posted on June 1st, 2011, 9:42 am

Hmm, can't argue with that...Well played sir. Lol