Borg lack some depth

posted on July 6th, 2010, 5:08 pm

Hi all,

I think after playing some borg games, that the borg could use some more depth.
This could be achieved by incorporating assimilated buildings,  and thus alien tech.


1. give the dodeca the ability to move again, like a siege tank from SC
give a progress bar when transforming to station.

2. I think the instant upgrades, when buying, should be converted to progress driven upgrades, for all races

3. Incubation centers should use the recrew ability automatically, depending on tactical setting (when in zone of influence)
the crecrew should also be visible by recrew beam, maybe yellow.
a) for Assimilator avatar, the incubation centers should have the assimilation ability replaced with the autoassimilator beam, and it should be an upgrade, probably up to tier 3. This way, you'd achieve sort of "Zerg effect" in terms of assimilation, the incubation centers would serve as defensive building/tower and to spread influence.
This way it would possibly enable sort of tower strategy, the centers could be placed offensively,or to secure expansion.
Or give dodecahedrons the assimilator beam for stationary use.
b) for optimize avatar, the incubation center should also have the progress driven upgrade rather than instant one
Quote from: borger on Today at 12:06:43 PM
5) the adaptor module is pretty useless I think, so make it an upgrade to adapt alien tech.
To enable repair yard, any ship has to be assimilated.
I find it logiacal that if the borg assimilate a vessel, they'd gain access to the foreign tech. Borg should be very quickly gain alien tech. It would make the borg more interesting by more building vaiety.
Probably make the adaption module accessible for diamond. see 6,
a) Adaptors should be built in assimilated small shipyards, pyramids in assimilated enhanced ship yards.
borg should use assimilated buildings more, so only "the 5 platonic solids" should be built the borg way. ^^.
s
6. borg should have shield/adaptor modules possibly only for cubes and sphere or adaptors, pyramid and diamond depending on avatar. Once an enemy shipyard assimilated, the upgrade for unlock shield modules should be researchable then in repair yard.
I think thats an adaption strategy. maybe the shield module should also use adaptor feature, a terminal adapation module so to speak, incorporating alien tech
I recall borg use remodulating phase shields.

7.  give the holding beams for stations the auto cast feature please

8. the transwarp ability should maybe given to the slow tactical cube, only if armor installed

9. Perhaps a bit smaller scaling for borg buildings

10. the transport crew ability should be replaced with yet another beam. the transport beam, maybe purple colored

11. make the scout cube a tetrahedron.

12. the borg should also have a experience/level up system,maybe called adaption level
so maybe enemy fire has a certain chance to be reflected back to the enemy, increasing with rank/adaption level

*copy of news post*

posted on July 6th, 2010, 5:20 pm

1) i agree that the dode should get a progress bar when turning into a turret, but i disagree with it being able to get up and fly away again. i think it should stay a turret.

2) can u elaborate on what u mean? are u requesting that refits and upgrades require time to complete? if so then i agree.

3) by recrew ability do u mean Matrix Teleport? if so then i doubt the ai will be able to make a reasoned decision on which ships need the special. it might go and use the special on a ship which only needs 1 more drone to be full lol.
if u on the other hand mean it should automatically recrew ships which are nearby, then it already does, u dont need to push a button and it will put drones on nearby ships. assimilates incubator will even put drones on enemy ships

i dont agree that incubators should get auto assimilator, they are not designed for that.

although i do agree that a separate module could be nice on the dode (only for assimilate avatar) to give it auto assimilator only when its a turret, as that is a structure with weapons.

5) the adaption module is very useful imo. but i like your idea of giving the diamond the ability to adapt.

i disagree with allowing borg to use assimilated shipyards to build their own ships. they wouldnt even build enemy ships there.

i do think that cubes pyramids and diamonds are too big to build from an uplink, i would prefer them to be transwarped in.

6) i dont think shields on borg is a very popular idea, it nearly always gets rejected. i am opposed to it, not because i think its terribly offensive, but because i love how it is now, i think the fo borg are really nice.

7) i dont see a problem at all with this, it seems sensible that the borg stations could holding beam any nearby ship that approached.

8 ) i disagree, for the same reason that warp was removed, i dont want tac cubes being fast, they are already like a floating starbase with more guns, lets not make them fast as well.

9) i think they are for the most part scaled right, borg should have huge bases

10) why? they have been constantly shown to use similar transporters to the feds/klinks/doms/roms/cardies pretty much everyone. transporters have never been shown to need a beam between locations.

11) i prefer mini cubes, its foreshadowing for the real cube that will appear later maybe a new borg ship could be a tetrahedron

12) i dont have any ideas on experience for borg, its a tricky subject, we dont want the borg getting even more powerful in late game, as they have the cube already.

EDIT: i hate this smiley: i have to put a space for item 8

[Arash8472]

posted on July 6th, 2010, 5:20 pm

Last edited by Arash8472 on July 6th, 2010, 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wow... talk about over powered much... o-o;


btw myles i think beam between ships for transporting comes from stargate lol

[Myles]

posted on July 6th, 2010, 5:24 pm

Last edited by Myles on July 6th, 2010, 5:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

wow... talk about over powered much... o-o;

thats not a very helpful comment, u come off as rather hostile to a new member. instead of summarily dismissing his ideas why dont u criticise them properly? describe why u think his ideas will make the borg op

btw myles i think beam between ships for transporting comes from stargate lol

i was talking about star trek

but even in stargate they eventually abandoned the idea of beams going from place to place. first the asgard beams lost the effect, then the rings lost it.

posted on July 6th, 2010, 5:25 pm

wow... talk about over powered much... o-o;

I know it dusturbs current balancing, and I also know all the others would need be adjusted as well.

Resistance is futile.  :borg:

posted on July 6th, 2010, 5:26 pm

Resistance is futile.  :borg:

say that to double steamy warpin

posted on July 6th, 2010, 6:02 pm

1) i agree that the dode should get a progress bar when turning into a turret, but i disagree with it being able to get up and fly away again. i think it should stay a turret.

It was just a thought, either incubation centers or enhance the dodeca. The ability to move again is not a must.


2) can u elaborate on what u mean? are u requesting that refits and upgrades require time to complete? if so then i agree.

Yes, the refits.
I would save that for neutral factions to interact with.


3) by recrew ability do u mean Matrix Teleport? if so then i doubt the ai will be able to make a reasoned decision on which ships need the special. it might go and use the special on a ship which only needs 1 more drone to be full lol.
if u on the other hand mean it should automatically recrew ships which are nearby, then it already does, u dont need to push a button and it will put drones on nearby ships. assimilates incubator will even put drones on enemy ships

If the incubation centers already do recrew in zone of influence, then thats fine.
I didn't notice though. Maybe the centers could also use a zone indicator, and maybe for eye candy reason use an animation or an indicator too, that the vessel is being recrewed.


i dont agree that incubators should get auto assimilator, they are not designed for that.

although i do agree that a separate module could be nice on the dode (only for assimilate avatar) to give it auto assimilator only when its a turret, as that is a structure with weapons.

Either way, you get my drift with having a stationary assimilator, dodeca would be fine though.


5) the adaption module is very useful imo. but i like your idea of giving the diamond the ability to adapt.

It is, but I don't like capturing a specific ship rather than any ship.


i disagree with allowing borg to use assimilated shipyards to build their own ships. they wouldnt even build enemy ships there.
Why wouldn't they upgrade an assimilated station, and build eg adaptor in it?

i do think that cubes pyramids and diamonds are too big to build from an uplink, i would prefer them to be transwarped in.

A good idea too.

6) i dont think shields on borg is a very popular idea, it nearly always gets rejected. i am opposed to it, not because i think its terribly offensive, but because i love how it is now, i think the fo borg are really nice.

The borg are nice, but they need more depth, upgrades and one more building. Why not merge adaption/shields into one module perhaps for support crafts

7) i dont see a problem at all with this, it seems sensible that the borg stations could holding beam any nearby ship that approached.

Yes, but do they auto use it? I always had to do it by hand.

8 ) i disagree, for the same reason that warp was removed, i dont want tac cubes being fast, they are already like a floating starbase with more guns, lets not make them fast as well.


Just an idea, since I think the transwarp drive should also be used by a medium ship. Could make some good ambush tactic.

9) i think they are for the most part scaled right, borg should have huge bases

10) why? they have been constantly shown to use similar transporters to the feds/klinks/doms/roms/cardies pretty much everyone. transporters have never been shown to need a beam between locations.

Its more a reason of indication again. Could use an animation.

11) i prefer mini cubes, its foreshadowing for the real cube that will appear later maybe a new borg ship could be a tetrahedron

either way good.

12) i dont have any ideas on experience for borg, its a tricky subject, we dont want the borg getting even more powerful in late game, as they have the cube already.

So what youu think about reflection damage via xp? The ships won't get more firepower but reflect enemy fire.
EDIT: i hate this smiley: i have to put a space for item 8

.

posted on July 6th, 2010, 6:15 pm

about incubators: they do already give crew to allied ships nearby, every second or two a bunch of crew appear on ships that need it. i agree an animation would be helpful, as would an indication of the range.

about adaption modules: i disagree with only needing to assimilate one ship, for two reasons.

to deduce all the info about all the enemy tech u need more than one ship. i mean if u assimilate a sabre you wouldnt know how to adapt to torps as a sabre has no torps. thats why we need to assim a con ship, as it holds all the blueprints and specs.

the second reason is that it would be so OP if u could steal one brel (which has practically no crew, half of which are drunk on blood wine) and suddenly get the ability to pump out adapted ships against all klinks.

about assimilating shipyards: who says that a shipyard of the feds is capable of building a borg ship? i doubt it is advanced enough. its all the wrong tech.

about holding beams on stations (unicomplex feature): i dont know if they can use it automatically, i havent tried using it.

about transwarp on cubes: imagine the anger that when u get a cube down to 5% hull it transwarps away and regerates all of it. cubes should stay slow, if they had transwarp they would have to be so weak that the delta flyer could hurt them

about transporters in general (for all races): there is already an animation of transport activity, both the ship doing and receiving the transport have an effect on them, and there is that awfully loud sound when beaming.

about reflecting damage: im not so keen on that. if there was gonna be boosts on xp it would probably be reduced damage via adaption.

[borger]

posted on July 6th, 2010, 6:27 pm

Last edited by borger on July 6th, 2010, 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

about incubators: they do already give crew to allied ships nearby, every second or two a bunch of crew appear on ships that need it. i agree an animation would be helpful, as would an indication of the range.

about adaption modules: i disagree with only needing to assimilate one ship, for two reasons.

to deduce all the info about all the enemy tech u need more than one ship. i mean if u assimilate a sabre you wouldnt know how to adapt to torps as a sabre has no torps. thats why we need to assim a con ship, as it holds all the blueprints and specs.

the second reason is that it would be so OP if u could steal one brel (which has practically no crew, half of which are drunk on blood wine) and suddenly get the ability to pump out adapted ships against all klinks.

about assimilating shipyards: who says that a shipyard of the feds is capable of building a borg ship? i doubt it is advanced enough. its all the wrong tech.

about holding beams on stations (unicomplex feature): i dont know if they can use it automatically, i havent tried using it.

about transwarp on cubes: imagine the anger that when u get a cube down to 5% hull it transwarps away and regerates all of it. cubes should stay slow, if they had transwarp they would have to be so weak that the delta flyer could hurt them

about transporters in general (for all races): there is already an animation of transport activity, both the ship doing and receiving the transport have an effect on them, and there is that awfully loud sound when beaming.

about reflecting damage: im not so keen on that. if there was gonna be boosts on xp it would probably be reduced damage via adaption.

Maybe transwarp for the new tetrahedron.

Just a side note, why would the borg have more difficulties in analyzing alien tech than say the fed, ie getting the alien yard?
They should even gather more data as any other race at the same amount of time.

I'd like to see the adaption module on the diamond. I think, the effort in stealing a con ship doesn't pay off. Suh a feature could be leveled in tiers.

As for damage reduction, would this in fact also make the borg even more powerful?
With dmage reflection massing ships could win the battle against borg, since dealin the same damage and according to their rank.

posted on July 6th, 2010, 6:28 pm

progress bars for refits or "morphs" like the dodecahedron are in fact on todo expect them in a future, not too distant patch

i will take a look at the other suggestions for the next patches

posted on July 6th, 2010, 6:37 pm

about yards: you suggested that the borg could fly in and start building stuff there, which i say they cant.

the feds cant capture a rom yard and build anything there. the klinks cant capture a dom yard and build anything.

the most the borg should get from a yard is some blueprints, maybe a small increase in adaption

thanks optec, sounds good

posted on July 6th, 2010, 6:46 pm

about yards: you suggested that the borg could fly in and start building stuff there, which i say they cant.

the feds cant capture a rom yard and build anything there. the klinks cant capture a dom yard and build anything.

the most the borg should get from a yard is some blueprints, maybe a small increase in adaption

Increase of adaption is possibly a good idea to get more upgrades.

thanks optec, sounds good

I only suggested exactly one ship, that'd be the only ship from a yard, say it'd be always adaptor. I just find , the adptor looks like an assimilated and adapted design, not borg native.


My thought  was basically, the borg should get somehow a unique feature with alien tech, sort of dynamic alien tech tree. depending on upgades or what was assimilated will be unlocked in say the repair yard.

posted on July 6th, 2010, 10:59 pm

the most the borg should get from a yard is some blueprints, maybe a small increase in adaption

Nah.  I'd like to see a station captured by the Borg undergo an immediate and alternate decommision.

Take the resource value of the station.  That is the resource value of the borg vessel it starts turning into.  This would give the Borg a reason to do something other than blow up every station in sight and the laughter of an assimilated mining station turning into a scoutcube (if it survives the change).

The way I see it working is going through the decommissioning procedure, which leaves an uplink that immediately begins building the selected ship.  During this period, it's just as vulnerable as at a normal one (moreso, in fact, because it's not in the relative safety of the Borg base.)

posted on July 7th, 2010, 12:23 pm

I doo agree with you on some of the suggestions, well maybe not directly but i would like to see a little change in some of the borg gameplay aspekts. Would be nice if adaption was implemented to some more ships than the adaptor, even if the adaptor is quite powerfull with adaptmodules its still hard to comeby since you need to assimilate a contructionship that mostly will spend its time near a starbase...

Assimilation also comes in mind, its what borg doo. Problem is that they lack some tools to doo it more effective. Yeah i know, they can get assimilators bla bla bla... Thats ONE ship that does the job well, and it becomes a little obsolete lategame. Also holdingbeams are pretty bad, i still never see a reason to get them...

What i am proposing is more lategame assimilation options or in general more assimilation options for borg, maybe by upgrades or enable borg ships to install modules after they are built. This will enable borg ships to "adapt".

sry if my english sucks..

[Myles]

posted on July 7th, 2010, 12:51 pm

Last edited by Myles on July 7th, 2010, 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Would be nice if adaption was implemented to some more ships than the adaptor

partial adaption affects all ships

its still hard to comeby since you need to assimilate a contructionship that mostly will spend its time near a starbase...

catch it when it expands, it will be there definitely when they first expand, and some people will leave it there, even scubes have large crew complements

Assimilation also comes in mind, its what borg doo. Problem is that they lack some tools to doo it more effective. Yeah i know, they can get assimilators bla bla bla... Thats ONE ship that does the job well, and it becomes a little obsolete lategame.

assimilators arent obsolete, they support your ships well from long range. with torpedo weaposn that always hit lategame ships. several of them can strip loads of crew. 5 of them can strip 1000 crew easily. for the assimilate avatar you will be producing them in those sort of numbers.

Also holdingbeams are pretty bad, i still never see a reason to get them...

i'll give you two reasons to equip a common optimise ship with holding beams. optimise isnt the assimilate avatar remember, its not designed for assimilation. the ship you will fit it on is the sphere, the sphere can only accept 1 holding beam module. even with full energy 1 holding beam module wont assimilate much. here are the reasons to fit the sphere (only for optimise, for assimilate go for a pyramid with 2 regen and at least 1 holding beam) with its 1 holding beam module (and 3 regens of course)

reason 1) it allows the dodecahedron with 2 vinculum modules to target it with its vinculum refresh special. so a sphere can do regen for a long time (as the holding beam gives system value), then a dode can give it 1000 more energy for even more regen which makes this sphere the ultimate tank.

reason 2) the holding beam holds stuff still, so u can kill it. pretty simple this one, if the enemy tries to run and repair, hold it still and destroy it. this is even more effective in base attacks as the enemy will wait for ages before giving the repair order thinking they can escape, only to be held still to die.

What i am proposing is more lategame assimilation options or in general more assimilation options for borg

they already have several methods which work brilliantly if u combine them.

1) use the good old fashioned transporter, you dont have to drop shields for this is as borg ships have no shields, so transporting gives no vulnerabilities to borg.

2) use auto assimilation beam (blue beam) it will strip crew fast

3) use nanite factory, instantly kills 5% of crew i believe

4) use holding beams

5) use boarding, this instantly captures most destroyers.

6) use nanites, its not directly geared for assimilation, but it will stop ships if it gets their engines and it will drain crew if it disables life support.

7) in the next patch use interception dodecahedrons, these disable subsystems, like engines to stop retreat and life support to further drain crew.

8 ) pick your targets, go for low crewed vessels like brels and bugs first.

EDIT: got rid of that stupid emote for point 8