Borg And Adaption

posted on July 13th, 2009, 1:38 am

I was wondering if it would be possible since the borg ships don't gain xp, the borg would be able to gain xp as a whole, with their directive or avatar adapting, giving all of your ships bonuses for killing ships and stations, and removing the regular research for the ship upgrades ( such as the 6 percent to all weapons 6 percent to all shields ) but the borg would gain xp for all those systems at once but only at lets say 1 percent for so much xp, and the assimilation avatar could gain  upgrades for all special weapons, and the optimize avatar would get engine upgrade, I don't know how much xp would constitute an upgrade, but I think that It would be a cool Idea to impliment into the game. 

posted on July 13th, 2009, 2:05 am

That is currently beyond FO at this point. Besides... the entire Collective adaption would mean that you'd have to kill em quick or else they become God ships. And FO doesn't want that... though I think all vessels should be able to have at least one adapt module. Making them more Borg like...

posted on July 13th, 2009, 2:09 am

I can see how it's currently beyond fleetops but I don't see how an avatar can't gain experiance from a "kill counter" I'm not proposing god ships, I'm proposing the removal of the old ship upgrade system, and being replaced by the whole collective system upgrading, and fully leveled up being no more powerfull than if you'd researched the upgrades yourself.

posted on July 13th, 2009, 2:10 am

I have to add that this was already discussed in numerous threads, the devs said they have something in mind for the borg, so we have to wait for that to happen, i fear.

And on a side note, the current borg are already: kill them early or be overrun by them, no need to fear a few points of extra damage.  :lol:

posted on July 13th, 2009, 2:19 am

Personally I think the borg are a little two weak in early game, cause an experienced player will take a borg player out fast even if the borg player has a lot of experience... besides I can still take em out in late game.

posted on July 13th, 2009, 2:22 am

The game balance cannot account for different experience levels. Any race looses if the opponent is simply better. I wanna see the player who easily gets rid of a whole fleet of tactical cubes plus support vessels. 

posted on July 13th, 2009, 2:30 am

If the I expend just a much resources as they did on those tactical cube on sovs and support vessels, I'll take em down, you just half to cordinate 5 or 6 fleets of ships on the fly, I perfer the dominion which gives me slightly more powerful battleships than the other races and they don't have as much resources expended as the other races. Other than the fact that they require insane ammounts of supplies. 

posted on July 13th, 2009, 2:37 am

Hm, a tactical cube costs about 5000 dilithium for example, that makes how many sovies ? 6 ? 7? I´m not quite sure if 6 sovies could take out one tytical cube that easily. The cc´s are a big hindrance i admit, but on the other hand the borg do not pay much for their technologies, which all other races do.

I agree with you on the point that some form of adaption is needed for the borg, but not because they are weak, just because right now they don´t feel very borg in this regard.

posted on July 13th, 2009, 5:01 am

Agreed, if anything after or if this is implemented, I think that the borg should be weakened if the adaption works a I think it will/would, i would like to make this a reality, even if only on my copy of fleetops, I would appreciate any insight on how I might go about scripting this.

posted on July 16th, 2009, 1:39 pm

Hm, a tactical cube costs about 5000 dilithium for example, that makes how many sovies ? 6 ? 7? I´m not quite sure if 6 sovies could take out one tytical cube that easily. The cc´s are a big hindrance i admit, but on the other hand the borg do not pay much for their technologies, which all other races do.

I agree with you on the point that some form of adaption is needed for the borg, but not because they are weak, just because right now they don´t feel very borg in this regard.

i think the feds wuold have sovereigns long before the borg get 1 cube

posted on July 16th, 2009, 1:56 pm

Hm, a tactical cube costs about 5000 dilithium for example, that makes how many sovies ? 6 ? 7? I´m not quite sure if 6 sovies could take out one tytical cube that easily. The cc´s are a big hindrance i admit, but on the other hand the borg do not pay much for their technologies, which all other races do.

I agree with you on the point that some form of adaption is needed for the borg, but not because they are weak, just because right now they don´t feel very borg in this regard.

but you have to think:first you have to research the sovys, then build the yard, and also, a cube gets build in the time 2-3 sovys are built, also you can build for low cost many cubes at the same time.
as borg you just have to have a godly economy, to maintain a flow of uber -units...

posted on July 16th, 2009, 2:08 pm

Are you seriously comparing one unit to another? Hey I know, lets compare the Avalon to the Cube. I mean, the Avalon is available at the last Chassis level as well! /end sarcasm/

There are just so many things wrong with this argument...

posted on July 16th, 2009, 2:15 pm

did you refer to me?
i don't want to compare the cube with the sovy, i just wanted to tell that guy, that even if 5-6 sovys could beat a cube, you can't compare them this way, because the sovy needs a expensive yard, a expensive research and is not built so fast that you can spam 6 sovys in the time the enemy builds on cube..

posted on July 16th, 2009, 2:27 pm

I think I refer mainly to Darthashur and also to Jules79. 

The Sovereign is not the correct counter to a Cube. As you said, the Sovereign needs a lot of tech and resources invested in it to be built. Excelsior II's and Intrepids will be out in numbers before then, which is what you should be using as the core of an anti-Borg fleet.

Whenever people begin talking about equivalency in Fleet Ops, it makes me want to cringe. Fleets must be considered when talking about balance. Likewise, not every unit is a multipurpose unit that can be used to fight all factions. Would you use the Monsoon to fight off the Borg? No. Does that make it unbalanced? No. Of course you can statically say that "I have 6 Martok Negh'vars--that's equivalent to one Assimilate TacCube... lets see who wins". However, those kind of remarks are really very sterile. According to my build order against the Borg, I might never reach Negh'vars before my opponent gets a Cube--but that has no effect on the Negh'vars balance overall. When making an argument for or against a certain unit, I don't see the point in only discussing its role in a vacuum. That is why I find it odd we are bringing up that a Cube could be UP/OP in relation to the Sovereign's costs etc.

posted on July 16th, 2009, 2:40 pm

Just my 2 cents:

I dont think that the borg can spam their uber ships in late game. Just consider this: To build 2 diamonds you need 180 collective connections, fo 2 cubes 260. On the highest research level for their accumulation speed you gain 1 cc a second. so you have to wait for 180 or 260 seconds to get those two ships. Thats it, you cant speed this up anymore, no matter how much resources you have. Simply no way!

On the other hand all other races (if they have a lot of resources) can build as much shipyards as they want and then they start building. They build, build and guess what, they build. The more yards, the more ships. So i think in real late game the borg can simply be overwhelmed by all other races. I tried this with a friend, he played as klingon.
We constructed our fleets. He came up with 6 fleets of negh'vars while i had one fleet of diamonds and 8 tactical cubes. Well, i won the battle, but only cause of my well organized defense he ran into. In deep space i wouldnt stand a chance.

I think the main problem right now with the borg is, that they cant use the resources they gather in late game. I would like to see a "buy cc option". I always have a huge amount of resources in late game, but cant use them to build ships like the other players can, cause i have to wait for those damn cc's to recover.