Boobytraps - defensive structures in nebulas and asteroid fi

[Andre27]

posted on December 15th, 2010, 7:58 pm

Last edited by Andre27 on December 15th, 2010, 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Watching some of the youtube replays i notice that very few people make use of the nebulas. Only the green nebula to restore shields and the blue nebula which disables shields (Borg heaven).

How would people feel about certain (manned?) defensive structures in asteroid fields.

Adding short range defensive structures or sensor stations for nebula could make for some nasty surprises for those who try to hide a fleet in there.

Last suggestion: Adding the ability to traverse asteroid belts for certain units (scouts, intrepid, B'rel) could add a whole new level of gameplay. Small units doing hit and run and escape into an asteroid belt where the larger more powerful ships cannot follow.

Thoughts?

Edit: typo/grammar etc.

posted on December 15th, 2010, 10:55 pm

having stuff able to pass thru asteroid belts would make some maps unplayable. imagine your outrage when the enemy escapes thru the fields of asteroid halma.

so i cant support that, it would require maps to be changed a lot.

maybe if only dominion scouts could go through asteroids, they dont have cloak, they dont have very strong scouts. so it wont give them an advantage, it would cost so much to make a serious attack group of scouts. then again they have their special. maybe if their scout could have a refit which allowed it to pass through asteroids, but lose its special.

how to implement this is difficult as blocking triggers are universal for all blocking, not just asteroids.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on December 15th, 2010, 10:57 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on December 15th, 2010, 11:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Purple are also used to get following cloakers to reveal themselves and for Borg to abuse. The damaging ones can also be used for Borg sneak attacks, since the Assim chassis and higher can regen so fast the nebula can't hurt them. Unfortunately, non-Borg have no real use for damagin nebulae.

I would like nebula-resistant turrets, to provide an early-warning system (nebulae effects would only partially affect it so that blue nebulae reduce shields by half, and damaging nebulae will outright kill an unsheilded turret in less than 30 seconds but only reduce shields by a fourth or so, and green only give 75% of their normal effect. Could say that only specially-made stationary things can use the anti-nebulae paint) and cool traps. Also possibly defensive nebulae upgrades to certain ship classes could be nice for traps and non-borg sneak attacks.

I don't like the idea of sensor stations (or turrets that only fire on stuff in the nebula) in nebulae, that would kinda make it hard to hide in there, I like the hiding capabilities. Also the turrets would not be cost-effective if they could only fire on the off-chance something gets into range inside the nebula. Firing out would be a lot cooler.

I really love the idea of scouts and some small ships navigating asteroid fields, just as long as they can't stay inside for long (scouts that your fleet can't shoot at and fleets that you can't get rid of without small ship would be annoying.) Maybe after 15 seconds (or 5 if standing still) they have a random chance of getting hit by asteroids, with enuff damage to take out Intrepid shields in two asteroid hits. Scouts could get more time and less damage maybe.

posted on December 16th, 2010, 12:10 am

I think that could be cool. Im thinking of a mine that could be deployed in a nebula that would prevent a borg oppent from regening for a time.

posted on December 16th, 2010, 12:46 am

While building in a nebula would be cool, if made for certain factions (and likely avatar specific on top of that!), I'd much rather just have build able mine fields.  The new sensor stuff they added for Borg and Dominion suggest that it now could be possible too.

Regards,
-Grey

posted on December 16th, 2010, 6:53 am

Don't forget If you have minefields then you need to have ways to detect them and then ways to disarm them. Normally games use the constructor to do that but it's just not good enough because constructors are too slow, too weak, unarmed and expensive. So I'd recommend a dedicated mine layer+disarmer with a stealth detection which ONLY works on mines and not enemy ships plus a dampending field which prevents mines from destroying the mine layer/detecor (would be a bit ironic if mines kill a ship designed specifically to disarm them) ship but if that idea doesn't fit then maybe high-yield torpedos could set off minefields so maybe give artillery ships' torpedos the ability to destroy minefields and scouts the ability to detect.

posted on December 16th, 2010, 9:10 am

You shouldn't forget the Generix Support with its great mines. If you can place some of them in a blue nebula, you may kill plenty of uncareful ships. It has also been stated that the Generix will become an even better mine layer in the redo. I think we are already on the way.
I'd like to see cloaked Klingon mines like in DS9, but I think that's a dream that could only come true for Romulans.

That Asteroid idea is quite interesting, Myles has a point though. I'd suggest to implement two kinds of blockings then: one that can be passed through by small ships only, and one that can't be passed by anything. I'd also like to see a come back of the moving asteroid belts from Armada 1 .

posted on December 16th, 2010, 10:01 am

Well, I think sensor-stations in nebulas could be a nice thing. Turrets in nebs are too op I think, but sensor stations might be useful. If nebs are mentioned, I think on rommies and borg.

The klingons can also place turrets in nebs, dont forget that.

Maybe the rommies could place turrets in nebs while the borg can place a special station in it... The dominion could use the nebs as energy-container. Lets say, the dominion will go into a damaging neb, take some of it and fire it at the enemy...

The klingons can use the red neb for ion-ships, that are resistent against them in order to sneak there around.

The feds... well, maybe they could use the green neb in a certain way.

posted on December 16th, 2010, 11:41 am

Further, as even a galaxy can blow away half a cubic kilometer with just one phaser shot, practically every ship might be able to savely pass these low density asteroid fields, which do not even have a dangerous asteroid movement.

So i'd say, let the asteroid belts be just a barrier.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on December 16th, 2010, 3:29 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on December 16th, 2010, 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

These aren't asteroid fields, they're asteroid thickets, so a Galaxy class getting thru is not going to happen (think Empire Strikes Back, where three SDs could barely hold off asteroids and one got hit in the bridge and we see the captain's hologram disappear...)

Asteroids are a major form of wall used in maps for online play, making all ships be able to traverse them (or even more than just some) would ruin the chokepoints and directional protection they setup. This is why I suggested only giving so many seconds before horrible damage is incurred, so that even with the right ships they are only a last resort (15 seconds of no damage might even be too long, maybe 5 would be better so that you absolutely have to get out of there fast.)

posted on December 16th, 2010, 4:55 pm

These aren't asteroid fields, they're asteroid thickets, so a Galaxy class getting thru is not going to happen (think Empire Strikes Back, where three SDs could barely hold off asteroids and one got hit in the bridge and we see the captain's hologram disappear...)

Asteroids are a major form of wall used in maps for online play, making all ships be able to traverse them (or even more than just some) would ruin the chokepoints and directional protection they setup. This is why I suggested only giving so many seconds before horrible damage is incurred, so that even with the right ships they are only a last resort (15 seconds of no damage might even be too long, maybe 5 would be better so that you absolutely have to get out of there fast.)

You are argumenting with Star Wars in a Star Trek game?  Of course they couldn't do anything with their lazers  ... In Star Trek actually you have a deflector for that stuff. Phasers would cut the Asteroids into pieces so you got a dust cloud left, still not that easy to pass through.
I think allowing small and rather weak ships(B'rel, Sabre, Bug, Shrike) to pass through would be pretty cool, but perhaps their speed should be decreased quite much when moving through Asteroids, if your opponent tries to run and hide he'll be a sitting duck there.

posted on December 16th, 2010, 5:04 pm

imagine a bunch of brels on asteroid halma, coming thru to the back of your base, killing your miners and retreating back. you would have to turtle to survive. no combat ships can get this ability without making asteroids annoying.

posted on December 16th, 2010, 5:06 pm

Scouts, maybe? They're runabouts with little to no military use.

posted on December 16th, 2010, 5:13 pm

Scouts, maybe? They're runabouts with little to no military use.

i do like that, i said that in my previous post. klink scouts are too powerful to have this, romulans scouts already are great (advanced cloak and ping refit), borg scout is probably a bit too powerful, fed scout has its useful scanner and decloak (in fact you can scan clear over some small fields with progressive scan)

thats why i said give it to dominion as a refit that disables the special. dominion scout is fairly weak, and without its special it would be only good at scouting. only mort can use those scouts in combat. but then again mort can pass through asteroids fields already....

posted on December 16th, 2010, 5:53 pm

imagine a bunch of brels on asteroid halma, coming thru to the back of your base, killing your miners and retreating back. you would have to turtle to survive. no combat ships can get this ability without making asteroids annoying.

My favourite map.

Make the ability a special (phase cloak without the cloak). The delay through the research should enable anyone to put up a credible defence and remember that across asteroid field raids would not be exclusive to a single race.