B'rel Wing Movement

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on May 12th, 2010, 12:47 am

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on May 12th, 2010, 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Alrighty. So we've all seen (or maybe not) the B'rel lift its wings up in a "cruise" formation, and put them down for an "attack" position. The B'rels in Fleet Ops have been designed with movable wings, but nothing's been given to them yet. Might we have a little brainstorming session then?

Cruiser mode ideas - the B'rel shunts power from the weapons and diverts it to shields instead. Torpedo avoidance is decreased and the wings flip UP. As per Tyler's and Boggz' suggestions, power is also diverted to engines.

Attack mode ideas -  the B'rel diverts power from the shields to the engines and weapons. All speed ahead, take down those targets! The B'rel gains a modest speed increase and weapon power is likewise accommodated. Wings face DOWN.

To incorporate these ideas, Cruiser mode would have the basic 40% torpedo avoidance rate, but have a defense of around 17 (for Martok for instance), with an offense of around 6 as well as the current movement speed of 140. It's a fast destroyer, remember? *numbers just illustrate idea, not actual balancing.

In Attack mode (which takes a second or so to activate - moving wings is hard guys), the B'rel drops down to its current defense of 11, and boosts the attack back up to 15. Movement speed is increased to 150 and torpedo avoidance reduced to 50%.

This could allow the B'rel to close with certain powerful long range targets, only to give the order to switch to attack mode. Likewise, this would also allow a B'rel in cruiser mode to have more staying power in a Klingon fleet, as even though it won't provide much firepower, it can hang in the fight (and shoot those cloaking P'taks!). movement speed is increased to 150

EDIT: Idea # 2 for making the B'rel cooler

Idea #2 to change the B'rel

- Cavalry Charge, ala DS9 -

B'rels in Attack Mode are not the lone warships that are the Cruising B'rels. Instead they gain a small attack bonus "Wolf Pack" where B'rels feint and cover each others weak points. A ranked B'rel (or maybe unranked... ) gives up to 3 nearby B'rels a small attack and defense boost. 

Long live the Empire! >:D

posted on May 12th, 2010, 12:50 am

i like that idea, maybe apply it to a kvort, and a 1-5 second delay between the switching, might i also suggest somthing similar for the intrepid class? the engines up would obviously make it go faster, and down, more powerful and durable, with again a small delay

posted on May 12th, 2010, 12:53 am

Interesting idea, sounds like a plan. The 'Wings up' mode should be the fastest, though, since that one is the cruise mode.

i like that idea, maybe apply it to a kvort, and a 1-5 second delay between the switching, might i also suggest somthing similar for the intrepid class? the engines up would obviously make it go faster, and down, more powerful and durable, with again a small delay

No K'Vort has ever shown the ability to do that, and might be too big.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on May 12th, 2010, 12:59 am

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on May 12th, 2010, 1:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Interesting idea, sounds like a plan. The 'Wings up' mode should be the fastest, though, since that one is the cruise mode.

Could be - that would be much more balanced (and useful) in my opinion now that I think of it I was just going off the idea that they are just loafing - not putting power into battlegear 

There are two things I'd like everybody to think about when considering the implications of this in balance. First is that the B'rel is rather fragile, and can have a tough time approaching more powerful quarry (unlike, say, the S-2 Escort Cruiser). The second thing is that obviously both modes need their downsides once engaged, otherwise it simply becomes a no brainer.

There would obviously need to be a pretty big cool down switching from attack mode to cruiser mode, that way you can't simply run off - blame it on those damn impulse manifolds. Klingon engineering for the win!

EDIT: move idea 2 to the first post.

posted on May 12th, 2010, 1:12 am

I think the Devs said something about them working on things like this and the Intrepid pylon movement.  I think it would be cool if they mooved upward every time they start moving.  so say its sitting still, they just move down, but if it starts to chace after a target they go up, and when it stops to shoot they go back down.

posted on May 12th, 2010, 1:14 am

Love the idea Dom, but I have one thought:

 I can't really think of a time when I'd want to use "cruiser mode".  Attack Mode has the increased movement speed so I'd likely just hang around in that.

 I mean I suppose I'd use cruiser mode until I was either ready to attack or to prevent an ambush from doing too much damage, but really the increased movement speed should be put into cruiser mode to give it a more important role.

 May I suggest:

Cruiser Mode - Defense 17, Offense 6, Speed of 150, Wings up, Torpedo Avoidance at 30%

Attack Mode - Defense 11, Offense 15, Speed of 140, Wings down, Torpedo Avoidance at 40-50%

 The idea being that, for firepower and better combat capabilities, you move into attack mode but lose a little speed and your shielding.  I get the logic behind your idea to have attack mode be faster, but I feel that "cruiser mode" would increase the shields and engines, while attack mode would increase the maneuvering thrusters to increase torpedo avoidance and weapons.

  That gives both methods a clear purpose .  I would never really use cruiser mode otherwise .

posted on May 12th, 2010, 1:17 am

That's what Tyler suggested and I agree with . (btw, you'd still want to use Cruiser Mode when in slower fleet combat I'd hope - extra durability beats extra firepower most of the time)

posted on May 12th, 2010, 1:18 am

I like the idea, it sounds similar to hyper impulse from a practical stand point.  The brels really are softies in some situations, and I like the idea of giving a speed and defensive increase while giving it an offensive decrease.  It would allow the klingons to utilize the gravity marker better, hopefully spamming multiple gravity markers wouldn't be too big of a problem.  It would also make the brel a better tank in late game situations with cruiser mode, when there's more microing of specials than of movement.

I'd like to see a cooldown of at least 15 seconds, but that would definitely make the bird of prey more useful.

posted on May 12th, 2010, 3:53 am

sounds reasonable to me 

posted on May 12th, 2010, 4:00 am

That's what Tyler suggested and I agree with . (btw, you'd still want to use Cruiser Mode when in slower fleet combat I'd hope - extra durability beats extra firepower most of the time)

A good deal of the time, firepower actually beats durability, unless it's HIGH durability.

On the other hand, I'd love to see the results of a bunch of high offense, low defence ships meeting the Romulan Vector Torpedo.  Or the Borg Sphere on full multi-beam config.

posted on May 12th, 2010, 6:57 am

Not exactly what i envisioned, but not a bad idea.

What i would like to see is a special group limited to only 1 or 2 groups of 5 B'rels / group, that become the "wolfsrudel" (wolfpack). Speedy and nasty hitters, that don't stay long, yet hit you hard enough to distract you.

There bonus would be a significant offensive power when they fire they 5 burst, then reengage the cloak and run like hell to the next target. (read on i have one more suggestion: * )

I don't consider attacking only the miners (yet they would kill 1 out of 3 potential targets, and if the player chooses not to leave then they loose this boost, say you have a window of opportunity of 10 seconds, either you leave and receive the bonus again to be used in 40 seconds again, or you stay and hope for the best) , but structures, as these would damage (not destroy) enough some of these, to force the opposing player to either put up some defenses, or leave some ships guarding key facilities.

As this pack attacks they would gain level as a group, and hitting the 2 silver would give them some better stats then your average B'rels, on gold they would become even fleet raiders, sniping ships 1 by 1, weakening the opponent.

Now i do not want an overpowered ability, so the creation on this special group would eat away some (40-50) supply. But if you are getting results with them you would get this back. If the group is destroyed you get an additional penalty of 20 supply.

* I don't know if this is possible, but a queue of targets would be nice, when you order your group to attack a region (or structure) you are currently having in your sight (you have a scout there when you give the order), so the 1st level group gets only 3 such targets (you may attack only 3 ships/structures, does not matter if it's a ship/structure/ship or any other attack pattern), 2nd level gets 5 and the 3th level gets 7.

Of course you may intervene any time, yet then the attack bonus is gone (temporarily).

After the execution of this your ships cloak again and head home with top speed (a.s.a.p.).

Now one more thing to note is that these targets are not in the same area, so you will either revisit them on the 3rd selected attack order, and if you have a gold pack with 7 attack orders, you may visit them only 2 times in a run, not more.

Now this may seem much, yet consider the bonus would only apply if you do not have direct control over your ships (you have given the attack order after that they execute it), they might be intercepted, loose 1 ship to a turrets (yes not 1 turret), still completing there task and coming home with at least 2-3 ships to gain back some supply.

To start another raid you need 60 seconds and your group must have 5 B'rels again, meaning you must replace the empty slot of your lost ship for the group to gain this ability again.

Drawbacks are that putting up this is micro intensive, you need to scout, you pay supply to put the group together, you have to hope that at lest 2 B'rels come home to regain at least 40% of the invested supply, and if only 1 comes home you get a penalty of 20 supply.

Gains are that you attack the enemy where it hurts the most, for 10 second your B'rels have an awesome staying power, they may all come home bringing you a bonus of an additional 40% of supply.

Again you may interrupt this at any time but then you loose the chance for the 40% bonus.

I know this might seem like a crazy idea, but hey don't skin me for it.

Long live the EMPIRE !!!

posted on May 13th, 2010, 5:37 pm

Hmm ...

  Neato!

  Dexter if I think that I follow you ... it could happen that B'rels get an ability allowing for a momentary boost to the fighting capabilities of nearby B'rels any time one of them ranks up.  This would not only support the concept of "wolf-packs", which I like very much, but it would also encourage a Klingon player who is getting kills to continue to do so and not retreat if at all possible.

  Now I don't know if this ability is possible in terms of coding.  It would fall under the concept of "aura-like" in terms of actually making the ability and I don't know if that's possible at the moment.

posted on May 13th, 2010, 7:22 pm

Won't it be a bit like the singularity generator?

posted on May 13th, 2010, 8:02 pm

Alrighty. So we've all seen (or maybe not) the B'rel lift its wings up in a "cruise" formation, and put them down for an "attack" position. The B'rels in Fleet Ops have been designed with movable wings, but nothing's been given to them yet. Might we have a little brainstorming session then?

Cruiser mode ideas - the B'rel shunts power from the weapons and diverts it to shields instead. Torpedo avoidance is decreased and the wings flip UP. As per Tyler's and Boggz' suggestions, power is also diverted to engines.

Attack mode ideas -  the B'rel diverts power from the shields to the engines and weapons. All speed ahead, take down those targets! The B'rel gains a modest speed increase and weapon power is likewise accommodated. Wings face DOWN.

To incorporate these ideas, Cruiser mode would have the basic 40% torpedo avoidance rate, but have a defense of around 17 (for Martok for instance), with an offense of around 6 as well as the current movement speed of 140. It's a fast destroyer, remember? *numbers just illustrate idea, not actual balancing.

In Attack mode (which takes a second or so to activate - moving wings is hard guys), the B'rel drops down to its current defense of 11, and boosts the attack back up to 15. Movement speed is increased to 150 and torpedo avoidance reduced to 50%.

This could allow the B'rel to close with certain powerful long range targets, only to give the order to switch to attack mode. Likewise, this would also allow a B'rel in cruiser mode to have more staying power in a Klingon fleet, as even though it won't provide much firepower, it can hang in the fight (and shoot those cloaking P'taks!). movement speed is increased to 150

EDIT: Idea # 2 for making the B'rel cooler

Idea #2 to change the B'rel

- Cavalry Charge, ala DS9 -

B'rels in Attack Mode are not the lone warships that are the Cruising B'rels. Instead they gain a small attack bonus "Wolf Pack" where B'rels feint and cover each others weak points. A ranked B'rel (or maybe unranked... ) gives up to 3 nearby B'rels a small attack and defense boost. 

Long live the Empire! >:D

i hear the cries of exploitative behavior with this idea because in a group the b'rels could switch between cruise and attack modes, so by the time an enemy is nearby the klingon b'rels are already long gone, the enemy finds out another expansion was hit and hit that as well, eventually more b'rels join and destroy the expansion and main base resource operation, when a fight does happen, the main klingon force is arriving and attacks, the b'rels attack from the rear destroy some bigger ships and several long range supporting ships before they can respond while your ships have just ran off, they cant get a chance, it happens all the time.

i was just pointing that out as an example, perfect or not, i would suggest having a few second delay between the cruise and attack profile to balance out the exploit with the idea.

posted on May 13th, 2010, 8:07 pm

lol the same exploits would work for cloak, might i suggest that like cloaking that the mode switch be given a cooldown, especially if the mode switch replies on a replaceweapon, you dont want people using the mode switch to escape attacks by stuff like holding beam