The Klingons in V3

posted on January 17th, 2009, 10:55 pm

A lot of you guys have already heard this rant but I thought I should post it here so the devs and those who don’t play online can read it.  Simply, I think the Klingons are over-complicated in Fleetops V3.

The Klingons depicted on the various TV series are a warrior race.  Beyond that they don’t build too many classes of ships.  They use the same ones over and over until there is no more life in the design.  They just built what works effectively and is cheap.  They are warriors not scientists.

Examples of this are the B’Rel, K’Vort, K’t’inga, and Vorcha class warships. These ships have very effective frontal weapons but have weaker defenses particularly at the rear of the ship.  These ships are the backbone of the Klingon fleet and are basically the only classes we see of them besides three appearances of the Negh’Var as a Klingon dreadnought basically.

The V3 Klingons have a total of 3 different shipyards producing twelve different ships and 5 different research stations.  The Klingons I have seen on the various shows don’t operate like this.  They are more focused on raw firepower than research and deceit.  The Klingons should have very few special weapons.  Perhaps one station at most if any at all and only a few ships should have special abilities (the only special I think should ke kept is the ion cannon/weapon overload for the Negh’var.)  All should have cloak however even the Negh’var.

The Klingons need at most two shipyards – basic and advanced.  I would daresay you could have just one shipyard at the cost of an advanced and let the Klingons build two Birds of Prey at a time in it versus one K’t’inga, Vor’cha or Negh’Var. 

If these changes were implemented I think the Klingons would be a more balanced, better race to play and be more in line with their appearances on the various TV shows, movies and novels.

posted on January 17th, 2009, 11:10 pm

I'll have to agree, while I think they are perfectly balanced, they do not play like Klingons at all. The huge clusterfuck of research stations doesn't make much sense since as you said Klingons are not the brightest thinkers in the galaxy, they are warriors. While I don't mind the large mob of buildable ships, I do think it would be neat if they only had one fleet yard and it simply added on various bays that build the larger ships. In the end your changes would make the Klingons a "build a huge mob of tiny weak ships in the smallest time possible" race, which is my favorite type of race. I think however that the Noxter are going to fall in that category and two races of that type wouldn't work. I'm in agreement for a Klingon overhaul, though I can't really think of any method to change them without disrupting balance.

posted on January 17th, 2009, 11:21 pm

I agree with most of what your saying. Everything is true, if you only look after the canon factor.
There are a couple of things I disagree with you, though and balancing is one of them. IMO right now Klingons are balanced ok. Another thing I disagree with you is that Klingon ships shouldnt have special weapons. While Klingons are not good scientists, they do however have character, so special weapons like  last dich assault, weapon overload, power rerout etc can potencially all be in.

All in all I think you made some valid points and maybe the Klingon tech-tree is too complicated (which is also seen with the AI) and should be simplified. However giving them a yard and a research station is certainly not a way to do it. Not only would that make the Klingons overly simple, but it would also unbalance them IMO.
I think the classic type of a tech-tree (like the one the Dominion has now) would suit them just fine
You could even make the Dom tech-tree more diverse then, after all they do have good scientists and conduct a lot of research.

BTW: I voted "no" on the poll, because of reasons I mentioned, their tech-tree should be changed though

posted on January 18th, 2009, 12:10 am

Personally, I can see them trading combat tech with their Federation allies (ever wondered why both empire's Photon Torpedos are identical?) and adapting it to their own purposes. Plus, Klingon scientists are not very well known but they are there, working around the clock to bring the best weaponry to the fleet.

posted on January 18th, 2009, 9:31 am

Most Klingon special weapons (and research stations) are not themed around scientific success, but around weapon technology (Ordnance Depot, Armory, Weapon Overload, Alternative Armament, ..). The Klingons are a very advanced race, founding one of the 3 major powers in the Alpha Quadrant, so i think their technological possibilities are underestimated.

The Klingon techtree was designed in a way to get a more industrial feeling. Combining all research or all construction possibilities in one building is, at least in my opinion, a sign for great technological possibilities and superior logistics.

posted on January 18th, 2009, 9:35 am

Speaking of tech, is it possible that the Klingon's research and weapons could find some way to include their tendancy to disregard safties and precautions? Since they are the race you can expect to fire a Photon at point-blank range.

posted on January 18th, 2009, 12:36 pm

  I agree, the Klingons have too many research stations. This is more like Starfleet. I think Klingons shouldn't have any research stations and all research should be made in yards, like feds do.

posted on January 18th, 2009, 12:58 pm

  I agree, the Klingons have too many research stations. This is more like Starfleet. I think Klingons shouldn't have any research stations and all research should be made in yards, like feds do.

I agree with this idea. To keep them industrialized and yet not too techy like the feds or roms, the shipyard would be a nice place to have them research. More like a branch on the shipyard that needs to be built once the yard is ready.
The way we do the basic yard additional production yards.
different design of course, but similar concept. instead of yards we will get to build engineering depots where the research cna be done.
The upgrades can be in specifc upgrade depots. the upgrade depot could then be available on the yard that gets unlocked once the engineering depot is ready.

**just my 2 cents worth  **

posted on January 18th, 2009, 1:00 pm

I do like the Klingons as they are at the moment, although I only build the canon ships and the Qawduj:whistling:. .
I like the idea of the "reusing" of ships over and over again, perhaps the refit system fo the romulans would fit partly for klingons.
But one idea I personally have for the Klingons is implementing a new ressource for them, namely "honor". Honor could be created by destroying enemies, especially when boarding ships, when you build a large base and have a good ratio of destroyed ships. The benefits would be lower costs for ships, or even "warp-in" ships from other houses, which support you. However, one could also lose honor, when attacking many freighters, losing constantly many ships without success or sending ships into dangerous nebulas etc. "Honor" could also be similar to the Borg ressource, so you could build a Negh'Var only with a lot of honor.
Another idea is, that if you have very little honor, or even negative honor, you also get a bonus, because the house of Duras is supporting you then . You could get different help then, more tricky weapons, the romulan experimental yard and stuff.

Only some ideas I had for the Klingons .

posted on January 18th, 2009, 2:21 pm

One problem, there is not House of Duras anymore. That house finally fell with the death of Toral, Lursa & B'etor.

posted on January 18th, 2009, 3:08 pm

  I agree, the Klingons have too many research stations. This is more like Starfleet. I think Klingons shouldn't have any research stations and all research should be made in yards, like feds do.

agreed. They play like feds should.

posted on January 18th, 2009, 4:27 pm

By extension, the Feds have a mechanic that would fit the Klingons very nicely - the chassis reserach. One could argue Klingon ships are based on a very limited number of basic ship layouts, which would go nicely with reseraching better basic ship designs. (as per the Federation class teching)

posted on January 19th, 2009, 11:56 pm

Yeah, researching everywhere everything fits to feds...

posted on January 21st, 2009, 5:11 pm

(...) But one idea I personally have for the Klingons is implementing a new ressource for them, namely "honor". (...)

I really like this idea! It gives the Klingons character imho.

posted on January 21st, 2009, 5:30 pm

but what will honour be used for?
like priority for the Borg?

Except increases in combat. Maybe honour could lower the cost (Dilithium cost) of building ships?
Sounds interesting but we need to flesh it out a little more.