suplies

posted on October 2nd, 2009, 2:29 am

well i played a long game with tuvok and mort, i was rom and they were domin. lets just say we had equal losses in begining, but i kept falling behind in number of ships. why? i had to buy suplies at least 5 times-. Each time more expensive. While domin collects them from the moons. Why do they become each time more expensive? Balancing? You cant keep up with them cos of that.

posted on October 2nd, 2009, 3:26 am

A little something that doesn't get mentioned often.  Until the stage of the game where the 2nd yard is the lynchpin, Dommie Veteran ships don't really stack up against other people's veteran ships.

Use that to your advantage.  You don't need to try to match their fleets if yours are made of experience bad-asses while theirs are rookies.

posted on October 2nd, 2009, 8:58 am

you have to remember: the dom-player has to invest pretty much resources for supplies, too, because the facility costs aound 600 dil if i remember right, and also he cant use his moons fully for other resources.

also, maybe a little idea:how about making mining supply from trit inly half effective than mining from dil? this way the dom players dont just hav a way to get rid of the trit they cant use.

posted on October 2nd, 2009, 10:45 am

Hmmm...

As Dom player, I usually build one Ketracel facility on every moon pair I get, assigning one ship to the Dil moon and one to the Trit moon. This way, the "normal" resource gathering doesn't get affected.

Why?

Because filling the supply collector takes about two seconds, or less. It's the unloading that takes a lot of time, like one supply per second. Of course, the more Ketracel facilities (and ships) you have around a moon, the more supplies you get. With enough ships and facilities, you can get a continous stream of supplies of about 10-20 supplies per second. But you need a huge investment in Dil+Trit to manage that, and usually you get to those levels when you already have the enemies against the ropes. After all, in early game, what you spend in facilities you are not spending in ships.

And before you start shouting "imbalance" or "exploit", let me tell you that, with a smaller investment, the Borg can easily duplicate that. And more safely than the Dominion, as the Incubation Center doesn't need ships to gather the supplies. Put eight of those together, and you can forget about supply shortages. And they are easier to defend, as they are in the base, contrary to the Ketracel facility that has to be in the moon pair.

posted on October 2nd, 2009, 12:47 pm

Okay, let me give you a secret for countering the Dominion war machine...

First... build a bunch of destroyers and send them when the Dominion player is begining to make their 1st expansion. Send your destroyers before the expansion is too heavily defended for them guys. Destroy any turrets and then afterward blow up those freighters and then the mining station. Make sure when your losing destroyers your sending some Intrepids to take their place.

Once the expansion is destroyed then research the Intrepid's Tri-Colbalt and then the Monsoon's Photon. Then when the next set of builders arrive... destroy one and try to capture the other. If you capture it send it back to your base with escort. Repair the builder and its escorts and send the escorts back.

Arround by late tech you should have the Dom mixed tech up. By the time you start making Defiants you should start on those Mir IIs! Once you get them flowing out of the yard... start spamming them! Those things are like rabid dogs attacking a bear against the Dominion!

posted on October 2nd, 2009, 5:27 pm

Gamer, he was talking about Romulans... not Federation.

What avatar and what strategy were you employing Timmy?

posted on October 2nd, 2009, 5:30 pm

I thought he was feds.... well, I was suggesting as the Feds. Though I'm not specific with Avatars.

Though logically speaking, when ever I was Dom. I always got crippled by those Mir IIs because they are long ranged and have those Quantum Pulses that damage furiously...

posted on October 2nd, 2009, 7:17 pm

In my experience, the best way with Roms to break the Dom is generally like this (though it's not foolproof at all, and relies on Mirajul.)

Get Cehlear and their special ability.  They will play a large part in your fleet.  Back them up with Disruptor Rhein, a couple of D'deridex, and some Norexan.  Generix support is useful, but not essential.  Same for Generix frigate and dreadnought.  You also need the D'deridex special ability, and a few Serkas can help immensely.  Leahval are a plus, but like the Generix, not essential (though their 1st special eats destroyers for lunch.)

The Cehlear have the miserable job of locking down the big guns.  Dreadnoughts, Seige Cruisers, S-7s, Breen Battleships, V-13s.  The D'deridex improve your fleet's defenses against the swarming dommies.  The Serkas AoE damage backs up the Rhienn in breaking down the swarms of destroyers, while the Warbirds mop them up.  Once the destroyer spam is done for, you can shred the bigger ships, and if you have enough Cehlear on deck, they will still be locked down, and unable to fight back.

posted on October 3rd, 2009, 2:18 pm

well i was miyural, they spamed breen and puretech battleships. just that in med and late, thats NOT TACTIC, THATS OVERPOWERED ships and most players would agree. But that is not the point, i try to match them with a mix of big ships from the second yard, warbirds, tavaras etc, also suport ships for shield generation. but they had more in the late game... Losses were equal in beg... This is FFA, you cant finish someone off, if you are not certain, that other guy cant defeat you in the meanwhile. Veterans are lost and regained on both sides. Big ships cost 40-50 suply. well every 6 of them and 2 suports, you have to buy suply, do you know how much suply costs when you buy it for the seventh time? For dominion allways the same stady rate.  All you guys gave answers for early and med game, PROBLEM is later the game gets, suplies cost much more, while i think it should be equall or in the begining first 2-3 times increases, later it has fixed value, no matter what time you are buying it!!!


Question isnt the the tact, if you are in a balanced game, later the game goes on feds, klin and rom will have less ress, while borg and domin dont have that problem

posted on October 3rd, 2009, 3:17 pm

By late game, your only hope if you aren't Borg or Dominion is to have a minimum of 2 Trit moons, and 4 Dilithium moons, if your issue is pure supply.  That's the minimum required for your resource flow to be high enough to comfortably buy supplies, provided that you build no support ships (who cost too much trit for you to then comfortably buy supplies once it's 1450 dilithium/1450 tritanium per purchase).

However, the way you make it sound, it was FFA in name only, because if they were hurling full spamfleets at you, it sounds like they weren't fighting each other.

Additionally, did you try building a fleet of Serkas in your back ranks, and then cloaking and sending it out to Silent Resolve their mining operations?  16 Quadcobalt Torpedoes just appearing out of nowhere does tend to break things.

posted on October 3rd, 2009, 3:20 pm

i would have to agree with immy here, some factions(namely rom and klingons) maybe need a bit tweaking of supplycosts of their mid-lategame ships...

posted on October 3rd, 2009, 3:23 pm

I have to note that when I run out of resources with Roms, it's usually everything at once.  So not only do I run out of supplies, but I've got a whopping hundred dil/trit remaining too, so all degrees of manufacturing shut completely down for a painfully long span of time.

Those expensive warbirds are usually to blame, yes.  But I wuvs dem!

posted on October 3rd, 2009, 3:44 pm

Then you didn't have enough mining stations, or you were losing too many ships.

Playing Mijural, the two Tavaras should last a lot, and you should be able to retreat them before they get destroyed. I will admit I lost four Tavaras to a human player, but I've never lost one to the AI. And those lost were more my fault for not retreating them in time than any cunning move on the other player part. Or may be his cunning move was to convince me that I could keep them fighting "a little longer".

posted on October 3rd, 2009, 6:13 pm

You should be relying more on small vessels as Romulans frankly. Support Refits should be your main force, and the other Generix refits, Rhienns/Shrikes for taking out mining and retreating quickly, Leahvals for very quick and heavy punishment... etc. Warbirds are the cream of the crop, and you cannot and should not amass them like you do with Dominion forces. Additionally, supply costs do NOT increase ad infinitum: they are capped at 1450 di and tri. Romulans rely on sneak attacks and not full frontal engagements. Dominion are the exact opposite.

posted on October 4th, 2009, 12:30 am

Part of why my preference is Klingons for lategame.  Nothing quite as beautiful to me as a force of Vorcha and Neghvar closing on the enemy.  Well, other than the number of explosions that follow shortly thereafter.