Some Turret Talk

posted on November 8th, 2010, 7:38 pm

Hmm.

Well, I realize cloaking is a huge advantage, my first look was to see which was easier Klingon/Romulan. And just really liked the Klingons ever since. But that isn't to say that Klingons are really that much better than Romulans, I just find their balance to be better or easier perhaps. Good turrets, and easily buildable ships. But whenever I play Romulan AI, I mean their ships crush through my Kvorts and early ships... so until I build up to Neghvars and better medium ships, so Romulans certainly can keep you at bay.

I also noticed very early on in games where I used to play against Borg alot as all factions, that Romulan turrets were the least effective, Klingons and Federation obviously the best. I didn't say anything much, cause I figured exactly that, that online it still must be balanced. But then, since I've been hearing how people still say that Romulan turrets are fairly weak.. and they never get built - isn't that saying something as well? If no one is building them... then the option is removed because the option is mute, and variety is lost.

I mean, to an extent, there should always be a cloak advantage, but there has been a lot of discussion I've seen over earlier cloak detect which I'm fine with. If it costs you a cruiser or destroyer to find out where all my cloaked ships are with your ping, heck, I'd be fine with you having that right from your starbase. Knowing that the only way you find me costs you a ship, or a chunk of a ship, and that advantage only lasts you for 10 seconds... still an advantage to cloakers I'd say, but also offers a defense for non cloakers.

I dunno, but instead of giving cloaking factions inherent weaknesses because of their ability to cloak, couldn't we instead offer non cloaking factions certain easier cloak detects, or anti-cloaking vessels (or some other advantages)? Like for federation, give them the option of warping in an experimental ship that offers cloak detect or something special wise that really makes them an asset against cloaks. Or scouts getting cloak detect abilities. Or a ship class for each faction, designed to do something against cloaking... even though I think these already exist don't they? Ships that have specials to work even against cloaks.

And on a side note though, I thought cloaking factions had certain limitations in place that I don't mind, ie, ship cost, or long tech tree. Aren't Romulan ships generally more expensive though and time consuming to build? So this somewhat helps balance, because they have fewer ships. If not, I dunno but I'm sure something could be done to give non cloaking factions some resistance at a cost, so that cloaking still remains an advantage... but one that is more easily countered. The cloak detect now is 250/250/50... and I think that's really good. You can find me, but it costs you half a ship or something. Find me twice, and you just lost a ship. But even then.. its just a ship. It seems like Romulans and Klingons have limitations placed into their tech up, more so than the other races? I mean, as federation, you can get to excelsior 2 pretty quickly... But to get to a Neghvar, even a Vutpa isn't so quick, as was mentioned in the other thread. You aren't just born with a Tavara... that takes time.

In either case, I think the Klingons have it good, so I'll be sticking with them But giving Romulans a little tweak would certainly be nice, as I also like playing as them, but it takes a bit more for a Romulan game to go smoothly though... at least I think.

[Alpha Line]

posted on November 8th, 2010, 8:01 pm

Last edited by Alpha Line on November 8th, 2010, 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hello there,

Boggz, I think you say, that the two cloaking races have an advantage in using ships offensively and defensively...? And because of that they need some disadvantages in building defensive structures...!

Is that, what you mean? Or did I understand you wrong???


But if I understand you right, then:

The Klingons have a strong turret, but it takes some time to built = disadvantage in comparison to non-cloaking races...!!!

[The Romulans have a better cloaking device and cloak detect than the Klingons] Their Turrets are pulse-based and need a Sing-Trans to stay active = disadvantage in comparison to Klingons and to all non-cloaking races...!!!

So actually, I don't understand, why the Romulans should need a better turret... Also the Romulans have the ability to cloak their turrets with the Cloaking Generator...

Regarding the Mayson turret: maybe you are right that his Phaser turret is quite powerful at the moment.
But I have to agree with loki_999 that there should be one Avatar in the game, who is a "turret specialist" for more defensive strategies...

But all this is just my opinion...!!!

Thx for your answer !

posted on November 8th, 2010, 8:11 pm

So actually, I don't understand, why the Romulans should need a better turret... Also the Romulans have the ability to cloak their turrets with the Cloaking Generator...

Oh no you're right.  I actually said that earlier that they have the best cloaking so there's no way they should have the best turrets.  However, their defensive networks should not be rendered obsolete by the time they're set up.


  My only real qualm with the Rommie turrets (which are much better than they used to be) is just that they are pulse based only and therefore are essentially useless against the larger ships fielded mid-late game.  I don't think they should be more powerful, but I do think that they should have the option of changing their damage type as they do now for their artillery range special.  That way they don't get more powerful per say, but they do have the ability to change their damage type.

posted on November 8th, 2010, 8:14 pm

I think the problem with the Romulan turrets is it simply costs way too much to make them when they aren't even that good.  The possibility of the Romulan player having a hidden fleet defending an expansion isn't as good a defense as a decent turret.  The Romulans do have awesome scouts, so they should theoretically be able to see the enemy coming and have a fleet there, but that isn't always the case.  Having cloaked scouts doesn't always translate to them being able to see enemy fleet movements (especially if the enemy can cloak) or counter them in time.

For the Mayson phaser turret, though - those numbers definitely seem way too high.  (I thought I should say something about the original post.)

Edit: (In response to Boggz's new post) I don't play online as much as I used to, so I don't know the numbers.  How often do people actually use Romulan turrets?  It seems to me that because of the singularity transmitter's cost, they just aren't worth the investment.  Having the best cloak shouldn't mean they have to have the worst (meaning almost useless) turrets.

posted on November 8th, 2010, 8:19 pm

Edit: (In response to Boggz's new post) I don't play online as much as I used to, so I don't know the numbers.  How often do people actually use Romulan turrets?  It seems to me that because of the singularity transmitter's cost, they just aren't worth the investment.  Having the best cloak shouldn't mean they have to have the worst (meaning almost useless) turrets.

  The reason they are barely used is because of how long it takes to get the whole thing set up.  The transmitter is one of the biggest problems and then the fact that they really can't do much against later game ships is another.  I think a higher storage of special energy to begin with and a research option to adjust to torpedoes would be just perfect .

posted on November 8th, 2010, 10:44 pm

Romulan Turrets are very cheap lol. I always end up with a huge surplus of resources when playing as them and can easily deploy them. They get a decent amount of shots off even without the transmitter, so I think they are just right the way they are now . Just because someone doesn't use something very often doesn't mean they are worthless (ex Breen cruisers xD).

posted on November 8th, 2010, 11:30 pm

Haha you're right about "not being used doesn't mean it's worthless", but there's also the notion that if, "over all it's not worth the investment, people aren't going to use it". 


  I still use them myself, but truly the system of setting them up could use a tweak, I think.  Setting a few up with a Transmitter does take time and resources, but much of that is rendered a bit moot once large sized ships hit the field.  I just think that, to keep the large investment in just a single area covered worth it later in the game, the alternative armament should include a change to torpedoes so they can at least deal decent damage .  I don't recommend any further changes in stats or price!

posted on November 9th, 2010, 12:27 am

Actually, I think the thing that would make them worth it is a reduction in buildtime.

If you could set up a decent number of them quickly enough, it's worth it.  As it stands, getting a fair number of them in place takes too long to be worth the effort a lot of the time.

posted on November 9th, 2010, 12:43 am

The Romulan Disruptor Turret already has the shortest build time of each turret, even without Prefab Defense Components.

posted on November 9th, 2010, 1:09 am

I would be happier if the turrets were still bad but the singularity center could increase weapons effectiveness of nearby ships...

posted on November 9th, 2010, 1:26 am

Hmm, well what if the turrets, like other romulan ships, could be refitted, i know that this bears a striking resemblance to the fed way of things, but it does seem to fit the romulans....

Basically, you build the basic romulan turret and then could upgrade it, with different types of refits, maybe one that boosts defense, and has a special to increase repair rate of nearby ships, or one that adds a extra disruptor cannon, or one that adds a torpedo launcher

posted on November 9th, 2010, 2:13 am

I would be happier if the turrets were still bad but the singularity center could increase weapons effectiveness of nearby ships...

well they do increase energy levels or nearby ships so thats more special abilities you can use on poor enemy  who dares to invade your territory

posted on November 9th, 2010, 3:33 am

well they do increase energy levels or nearby ships so thats more special abilities you can use on poor enemy  who dares to invade your territory

True enough but I think a small boost to rate of fire or damage would make them that much more useful, especially early game.

posted on November 9th, 2010, 7:33 am

Hey guys Dom PM'd me with some better numbers for some of the turrets.

Fed Phaser (M):  28.799 dps (57.598 x2 / 4sec)  -- (I was running it as 3.3 seconds)

Klingon Torp: 

14.325 is the base damage alright, but there are 8 torpedoes fired when you have 2 targets, not 4 - so that brings up your DPS to 60.32 when faced with 2 targets (thus higher than any other turret) Smiley.

  So the Klingon Turret actually foes 30.16 against a single target, but 60.32 against more than 1.  That makes more sense, frankly .

The Dominion turret's Shield-Only damage is the ~7dps value.  The 11dps value hits both.


I'll edit the original post to make it more clear. 

posted on November 9th, 2010, 10:26 am

The Romulan Disruptor Turret already has the shortest build time of each turret, even without Prefab Defense Components.

And it still takes too long to set up a good defense.  But then again, too much faster and it would be way too much micro-building on something not so great.

Really rather have a few cloaked ships sitting around on guard duty than those turrets.

Plus, the advantage of cloaking them requires you to abandon the possibility of using the Intel Center.  I don't really consider that to be a good trade.