Sensor Blackout - 60% of why Feds Crush

posted on October 26th, 2009, 3:10 pm

When and IF my new laptop ever gets to the country Im in at the moment, I will try that.

Thanks for the suggestion.

posted on October 27th, 2009, 7:56 am

Well I'm glad that something will be changed on Sensor Blackout.  As it is I'm tired of the Second Warp-in being backed up by a tech'd Canav to cut the balls off my Rhienns or Kbreaj'Qs ....

[ARES IV]

posted on October 29th, 2009, 5:48 pm

Last edited by ARES IV on October 29th, 2009, 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

  TO SNAPSHOT_9:
I don't believe those abilities are crutches.  Feds have excellent offense when used properly without the aid of fleet-debilitating AOE specials.  Warp-in is a form of offense and control that is far more fluid, strategic, and interesting than just an ability that changes the math.  Part of the fun of Fed is having to micro your Akira's and Ambassador's to absorb damage one at a time, your saber's to stay out of enemy range, your monsoon's and intrepid's to strike at support vessels, and your battleships to make the most of their offense.  COIL and BLACKOUT and OVERLOAD I do not believe fit the Fed theme of self-preservation as a form of offense.  They are the kind of debilitating offensive abilities I believe are better suited for Romulans.

  Also:  Feds have amazing offense in their ability to control a map better than other races.  Warp-in places 3 decent vessels anywhere within seconds - cheap turrets upgradable to anything allow fast and cheap protected expansions - sabers allow early game control over choice areas by being the best 1st destroyer (don't believe me, ask Dominicus).

  "Offense" is more than just numbers and abilities.  Offense is about control and Initiative.

That is not true. Federation have considerable less firepower than the other races. They need that crutches, badly, otherwise they stand no real change to win, if the opponent is on the same skilllevel. They dont control a map better than other races. You dont can warp in that often, not to mention that you need some time to build SFC.

I suggest you play a game with Federation against a similar skilled opponent. You will loose badly if you dont use support heavily. If you didnt in the past it simple means that your opponent lacked skill.

Federation fleets, cannot hold their own in battle against the other races. Thats why they need that ubermega support fleet. The little buff in shields does not compensate for the major lack of firepower. Guess why Fed is that difficult to play? Because you need to master your support like no other race. Why everyone is targeting Fed supports ship first? Because what left besides them is hardly a treat. And having to micro is not part of the fun with Feds, it is needed for survival.

Thats my personal opinion now, but I dont think that the current required gamestyle with Federation is anywhere near as it should be. 

posted on October 29th, 2009, 5:58 pm

well, the firepower is weaker, but they have a pretty cost effective longranged anf pretty fast ship(guess it^^) that makes starfleet pretty effective.

posted on October 29th, 2009, 6:32 pm

Come join us on Wippien, Ares.  The online multiplayer experience that Fleet Operations was made for is much different than games against the AI.

posted on October 29th, 2009, 8:13 pm

That is not true. Federation have considerable less firepower than the other races. They need that crutches, badly, otherwise they stand no real change to win, if the opponent is on the same skilllevel. They dont control a map better than other races. You dont can warp in that often, not to mention that you need some time to build SFC.

Watch the game I played against GreatGreenGoo in the "List of Awesome Youtube Replays" that Yandomman started.  Tell me that you can't warp in that often.  Every 3 minutes you get 3 free ships averaging a total of about 60-70 offense/defense.  FREE.  They have long ranged weapons early on and excellent tanks in the form of Nebula and Ambassador's.

I suggest you play a game with Federation against a similar skilled opponent. You will loose badly if you dont use support heavily. If you didnt in the past it simple means that your opponent lacked skill.

  What would that prove?  Clearly a supported Fed will beat a non-supported Fed.  My whole point is that some Fed support abilities are more powerful than they need to be.

Federation fleets, cannot hold their own in battle against the other races. Thats why they need that ubermega support fleet.

May I suggest YOU then play a fed game?  Support helps but strategy and skill can win without the almighty Sensor Blackout.

The little buff in shields does not compensate for the major lack of firepower.

Sure it does.  Would you then say that Klingon's buff in weapon's does not make up for it's lack in shield or hull strength?  Or that Rommies buff in System does not make up for other losses?  It's a race card and it's only a minor difference.

Guess why Fed is that difficult to play?

They're not...  Borg are hard against a skilled opponent.  KLINGON ARE HARD on a large map or against a good fed opponent.  Fed's have their research laid out neatly, they have all their ships easily available to them, they have a station that gives 3 free ships anywhere on the map, they can expand quickly and defend cheaply by not upgrading their turrets until they are needed.

  Explain how they are hard to play.  Mass sabers = win.

Because you need to master your support like no other race. Why everyone is targeting Fed supports ship first? Because what left besides them is hardly a treat.

I disagree.  Support from Fed ships is key, yes, but other races have the same thing.  Dom have to effectively use Alpha K, EM Blast, Hull Polarize and what-have-you.  Klingon MUST have their ships in multiple attack wings or they risk losing EVERYTHING to a few well placed Sensor Blackouts.

And having to micro is not part of the fun with Feds, it is needed for survival.

  If you don't like to micro, may I suggest Diablo II?  Point and click is not much fun if you ask me.  Micro is what makes the game personal and shows skill.  I started this topic because I feel that Sensor Blackout is a single ability that renders a fleet incapable of fighting with one click.

Thats my personal opinion now, but I dont think that the current required gamestyle with Federation is anywhere near as it should be. 

So then what was your point?  I'm saying Fed's should have some changes in their support and you're saying they need gamestyle change?  Do you think they should have to micro less?  Forget that.

posted on October 29th, 2009, 11:14 pm

Sorry, Boggz, Diablo II is pure micro.  To the point that nothing at all happens without you telling it to.

posted on October 30th, 2009, 6:51 am

It's a point and click.  I played for 8 years I feel I know what it is.  Point and click with occasional pushes of potion buttons.  Oh and a wheel slide if you needed to change skills.

point *click *die *point *click *die

Point is in Diablo you click on a monster and hold down the button until it was dead.  The sensor blackout you just point on any group of ships you'd like essentially taken out of combat.

  I get where you're coming from with the "you have to micro the blackout", but you have to micro ANY special weapon and they're not all of such a tremendous effect.  Blackout has more affect on the battlefield than a single Field of Fire.  It just does.  Blackout has more affect on the battlefield than engine overload.  It just Does.  It ruins an entire side for 25 seconds.

posted on October 30th, 2009, 9:34 am

I'm just hoping the devs change Sensor Blackout so that it's not the penultimate weapon in the game (when working as intended).  Even if it's not being microed (good luck getting your full-autonomy ships to use it, however, instead of tachyon pulses) it's obscenely powerful.  It does the most to the Borg and Klingons, and the least to the Romulans, but even the rommies suffer badly under it.  And this is what I consider the kicker.  It's the longest lasting special of it's nature, as well as having the largest reduction in enemy firepower without it being a total lockdown, because it's ranged AoE and can't miss.

posted on October 30th, 2009, 2:36 pm

This can wait until after the next patch, really. It's being sorted as I understand, as are a hell of a lot of things.

posted on October 30th, 2009, 6:44 pm

This can wait until after the next patch, really. It's being sorted as I understand, as are a hell of a lot of things.

  I disagree.  Optec said that it will have at least SOME balance change in the next patch and that makes me happeh 

  But no, it cannot wait until AFTER the next patch.  This skill (as the whole topic hath gone through) is a massive contributing factor into why Feds will almost never lose if played correctly.

posted on October 30th, 2009, 8:18 pm

But no, it cannot wait until AFTER the next patch.

Hate to say it, but it will be forced to wait until after the patch  . Sadly, I highly doubt you will see a hotfix coming, as we did not see one for the much more ridiculous Bug ram or C-11 cascade feedback. Likewise, the Devs would have to engineer a hotfix expressly for this version of the game (they would have to install it first), and that would take a lot of time.

posted on October 30th, 2009, 8:28 pm

Do you realize it's almost been a year since Cascade Feedback hasn't worked correctly/at all?  In about 6 weeks, I might have to make a post to celebrate!   It would be really funny if the patch came out about then and it did work properly on its own anniversary.

posted on October 30th, 2009, 8:41 pm

Actually, Cascade Feedback will have its tombstone engraved then

It's being removed for the next patch I believe 

posted on October 30th, 2009, 8:50 pm

[Censored] [Censored]s!!! >:( >:( >:(

Actually, give it the IS bomb then and all will be forgiven.