Sensor Blackout - 60% of why Feds Crush

posted on October 20th, 2009, 11:51 pm

Yes, Warp-in is a very fast means of delivering hard firepower, but math-wise sensor blackout is the single reason why the Feds are capable of crushing every other race.  Even at early stages.


  Mort and I played some great games this morning.  We randomed several and both got Klingons while he tended to get Romulans.  I quickly discovered that he's better than I am, though I did my best to counter his tactics best I could.

    (Cried terribly when 8 Gryphons decloacked and fried 12 Sangs at once with jammer)

  Then to give myself an edge I picked Fed on the same map.  I was instantly able to control him early with Warp-in till I had canav's ready with blackout.  He had resolutely continued to live through the warp-in's early and pushed me away until I came back with canaverals and his fleet was destroyed with little to no loss among my ships.

   
  Here's why:

  Canaveral is cheap, fast to build, has long range, and at medium range can deliver Sensor Blackout, which reduces weapon fire rates by 75% for 45(?) seconds in an Area-effect with points left over to do it again shortly.
    -  This effectively means that at the beginning of a battle: your fleet's strength drops to 1/4 normal for the duration of the fight.  You might as well remove a quarter of your ships math-wise.


  Although I'm sure blackout has been altered for the next patch, I'd like to suggest that this ability be simply reduced in it's effect and duration.  I believe that a 25% or 30% weapon reload rate combined with a 10-15 second affect would be adequate.  This means more than 1 canaveral must be used per fight and the entire fleet hit by it isn't rendered impotent at the beginning of the battle.  This also means that the ability still has a tremendous effect on the outcome of a battle but that it is not simply somethign that you can click away and know you've just received a boost over your opponent of a factor of nearly x3.

  Now this is only Blackout we're talking about here.  I haven't mentioned Plasma coil or engine overload because I feel they are more balanced and not such devastating abilities.  Combined with blackout though it's not even a contest.

  For comparison:  the Dominion's C-17 Seige Cruiser is a Tier 2 ship that requires a prototype and an upgrade before it can use EM blast, which has nearly the same effect but for less time and a +25% increase in the effect.


Canaveral: 
  Requirements:
- 1st Yard
- Science Station
- 2 Tech upgrades to reach Blackout
  Affect:
- 75% slower weapon reload time, AOE, lasts 45-60 seconds (forgive me I forgot).

C-17 Seige Cruiser
  Requirements:
- Second Yard
- Expensive Prototype
- 1st Tier Research facility
- 1 Tech Upgrade
- 100% slower weapon reload time, AOE, lasts 12 seconds.


  Now if you run the math on this it's clear that the Canaveral posses' an ability to a degree that it simply shouldn't have for a ship it's tech level.  C-17's take forever to field and rightly so.  They can completely decide the outcome of a battle.  Mort showed me later when his C-17's and his breen cruisers ate my C-17's and my V-13 Battleships alive due to better use of EM.

  I just think that Sensor Blackout beign adjusted to fit a ship of it's tier could make the Fed's not quite so able to control battles so early in the game.

Thanks!  And thanks to Mort for handing my ass to me.

posted on October 20th, 2009, 11:58 pm

Last I heard (don't slap me Optec  ) Sensor Blackout will no longer affect unlimited units

Incidentally, Sensor Blackout lasts for 25 seconds (and it is spelled Griffin )

I'm curious, what faction was Mort when you were Feds?

[Anonymous]

posted on October 20th, 2009, 11:59 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on October 21st, 2009, 12:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'm curious, what faction was Mort when you were Feds?

Romulan   

posted on October 21st, 2009, 6:09 am

I agree. It's a cool ability for feds, but its' duration and number of vessels it effects, and the ease of which it can be accessed, makes it a little over the top. And the poor canaveral isn't often taken for its other abilities.

(Most abilities last from 5-10 seconds. Sensor Blackout lasts for 25!!! seconds. That's a lot.)

posted on October 21st, 2009, 8:49 am

Personally, when I first saw the name of the ability, I thought it was going to disable sensors.

I still think that would be cooler, too, though it may be much nastier if you can't quickly get an unaffected ship into position to play spotter.

posted on October 21st, 2009, 10:20 am

dont be to harsh on it, yes i agree its overpowered ATM but its also one of three crutchs holding up a force with relatively weaker offence.

Sensor Blackout, Plasma Coil and Engine Overload are what make the feds imo the most potent race in the game.

posted on October 21st, 2009, 3:55 pm

Personally, when I first saw the name of the ability, I thought it was going to disable sensors.

I still think that would be cooler, too, though it may be much nastier if you can't quickly get an unaffected ship into position to play spotter.

I agree.

Blind ships not firing > ships doing decreased damage

From a Fed perspective, of course. All the other player would be... "pissed" doesn't cover it... At least, I know I would be. Damn Fedrats.

posted on October 21st, 2009, 4:07 pm

Well... wait till one of you sees what a Maquis Raider can do.... Muahahahahaha! Those guys will have a weapon that everyone will go crazy for! And those that get it woun't be afraid to use it!

posted on October 21st, 2009, 5:25 pm

And the relevance of that to the topic called?

posted on October 21st, 2009, 5:29 pm

Personally, when I first saw the name of the ability, I thought it was going to disable sensors.

you thought the sensor blackout was going to black out the sensors,  you must be silly 

i guess i'm silly too

posted on October 21st, 2009, 5:42 pm

And the relevance of that to the topic called?

It is a blackout weapon. That is its relevence... it causes a blackout of the targeted ship.

posted on October 21st, 2009, 10:24 pm

Not that I don't love getting off topic but my point, guys is that the numbers on an ability like this are just out of whack.  The ability is great, the name of the ability in relation to what it does is arbitrary, only the numbers for it's position in the tech tree are askew.

  I was hoping for reasons for or against this.

  TO DOM:
Yes thank you for the spelling corrections:  Griffin, not Gryphon 

  TO SNAPSHOT_9:
I don't believe those abilities are crutches.  Feds have excellent offense when used properly without the aid of fleet-debilitating AOE specials.  Warp-in is a form of offense and control that is far more fluid, strategic, and interesting than just an ability that changes the math.  Part of the fun of Fed is having to micro your Akira's and Ambassador's to absorb damage one at a time, your saber's to stay out of enemy range, your monsoon's and intrepid's to strike at support vessels, and your battleships to make the most of their offense.  COIL and BLACKOUT and OVERLOAD I do not believe fit the Fed theme of self-preservation as a form of offense.  They are the kind of debilitating offensive abilities I believe are better suited for Romulans.

  Also:  Feds have amazing offense in their ability to control a map better than other races.  Warp-in places 3 decent vessels anywhere within seconds - cheap turrets upgradable to anything allow fast and cheap protected expansions - sabers allow early game control over choice areas by being the best 1st destroyer (don't believe me, ask Dominicus).

  "Offense" is more than just numbers and abilities.  Offense is about control and Initiative.

posted on October 22nd, 2009, 3:28 am

Sensor blackout has surprised me a couple of times on the damage it deals.  I dont think it should destroy any ship by itself, I have frequently taken out several destroyers with it.  But I have no problem with the rate of fire changing portion of the weapon.  It fits the federation engineers thinking in my opionion, and its damned difficult to catch entire fleets in that AoE before the Canaveral gets blown to kingdom come, especially if your enemy sees it coming.  In addition, the Canaveral has at two other specials that I find usefull in certian situations, and tend to eat up energy.

My personal recomendation: if your gonna nerf it, nerf the damage.  Its a support ship anyway, not a nuke.

posted on October 22nd, 2009, 3:31 am

Sensor Blackout doesn't do any damage as far as I know... are you sure you aren't thinking of another vessel?

Also, the mobile Tachyon Detect doesn't work (known bug, don't worry), so really only the Probe is the other useful ability (and it doesn't eat up that much). Since the affected diameter is "long", you don't have to be anywhere near an enemy fleet to knock down the firepower sadly.

posted on October 22nd, 2009, 4:02 am

Maybe you were thinking about the Norway?  I know I find its other specials useful, too.