Nebula Torpedo Refit balanced?

posted on July 18th, 2010, 4:49 pm

So i just wanted to gauge opinion on the new torp neb.

I think "It's quite a bit too strong"

my reasoning is that for a small cost of supply (which feds seem to have plenty of) it can launch precise volley, which is awesome. combine that with its good all round stats it is fast replacing the steamy as my favourite warpin.

the purpose of the steamy is artillery attacks, mainly on stuff that cant move closer to attack it, ie structures.

but the torp neb can strip buildings of shields with ease. then pummel them with rapid fire torps. on top of that it has good all round stats so wont die fast like the steamy.

i would much rather get double torp neb than double steamy, as u have to protect the steamy, the neb protects itself.

i propose a solution: maybe have the remore's level 1 ability be vector calc, and precise volley be level 2 or 3. so that a research is needed to use precise volley on the neb just like trico and proxy torp. or have it's version of precise volley be less effective than the remore's as it isnt a support ship, it might be less able to scan for the weak points in shields.

on a related point i feel like torp nebs seem to be very common, its easily possible to amass 4 of these. maybe a chance reduction might be in order.

posted on July 18th, 2010, 5:20 pm

The nebula torpedo refit's precise volley does around 1/3 of the damage of the remore's precise volley.  It's also not linked to the remore's ability, so switching the remore's ability around wouldn't change anything for the nebula.  What's the problem again?

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on July 18th, 2010, 5:26 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on July 18th, 2010, 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

It's actually not that strong until you get more than one of them. Only one torp neb will be pretty powerful but not much to take on a base or anything. The one big problem right now is warpin vs. warpin whoever gets more torp nebs will win. I agree about switching the Remore ability positions as that would also help give incentive for people to actually research Remore specials (they're so good with precise volley there's little reason to research other specials.)

The % chance is 33 in the big warpin slot (where only galaxies and nebs can warpin, 50% Galaxy and 17% Sensor Nebula) and 10 in the all-ship slot (where any warpin can come, but Excelsior and Steamie are most likely) the chances are actually okay I think. Double torp neb (aka:pwnage) has a 3.3% chance, which is less than the 4% double steamie chance (and thats reduced form last patch where double steamie had 5.5%.)
A good solution to the Neb is to make anti-medium counter units. Every faction has access to these in the first yard (where the Neb's torps will miss due to small and medium sizes.) Intrepids take less damage from its precise volley (only lose 20% of their shields), Leahvals do a lot of damage to the Neb, K'Vorts and Breen Cruisers too (Bugs to a lesser extent can take on Nebs.)

The nebula torpedo refit's precise volley does around 1/3 of the damage of the remore's precise volley.  It's also not linked to the remore's ability, so switching the remore's ability around wouldn't change anything for the nebula.  What's the problem again?

So it does do less damage. Remore can take out the shields of a Vorcha, I thought it a little odd it took two Nebs to take out the shields of a Galaxy. The Remore is definitely a little unbalanced as three Risner Remores could easily take down a Starbase shields (they can do precise twice in a row.)

posted on July 18th, 2010, 5:27 pm

Ninja'd by Nebula 

VECTOR CALCULATION!!!!??!!! AAAAAAH

Sorry for the little overreaction - now just try to imagine a Steamrunner with Vector Calc on it and maybe you'll get my point. 40% more shots for a full minute, hmmm  :rolleyes:

The Nebula Refit does not "strip the shields off buildings" - it deals 125 damage (about 11% to a fed mining station). Each strike of a Steamrunner does 8% equivalently, and since Triloader has 6 shots, that means you get out 48% shields. Despite what you "feel" is the percentage - you get it roughly 33% and 10% of the time. You'll be getting Galaxies twice as commonly, and Steamrunners are inbetween those two percents of the Nebula Refit. Excels are 60% and 40%.

That being said I think that the energy regeneration rate is probably too high and could deal with being decreased by about 1/3 when in its special mode.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on July 18th, 2010, 5:34 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on July 18th, 2010, 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I think the regen rate is fine the way it is, precise volley takes 156 energy per use and until the Nebula gets to Officer or Vet it's not gonna have the reserves to do Precise more than once in a row (vet Nebula has 414 energy, but rank 1 has less than 200.) Proximity Torp recharges pretty fast (96 energy) but it requires the research.

EDIT:About the Veteran Torp neb, it once took on a vet Akira and two monsoons and won with heavy damage .

posted on July 18th, 2010, 5:47 pm

Au contraire, it'll have the reserves to do Precise Volley twice due to the enhanced regeneration rate, not to mention that it can keep hitting the Button over and over for the cost of only 5 supply

[Brother Gabriel]

posted on July 18th, 2010, 6:07 pm

Last edited by Brother Gabriel on July 18th, 2010, 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

only problem i see is compared to the galaxy class:
galaxy class "should" be superior to a nebula with weapons pod, but actually the nebula with weapons pod beats the galaxy by far.

posted on July 18th, 2010, 6:39 pm

Au contraire, it'll have the reserves to do Precise Volley twice due to the enhanced regeneration rate, not to mention that it can keep hitting the Button over and over for the cost of only 5 supply

I thought the enhanced regen did not affect reserves (tooltip says nothing of reserves or max energy), as in it will still only hav a maximum of 159 but lost energy is regained quickly. I haven't been able to do two precise volley twice in a row with the ability on, or even do tricobalt after precise.

posted on July 18th, 2010, 6:45 pm

You can do Precise Volley 2x with ~4 seconds to spare when you have the ability activated. You can do 3 rounds of Proximity Torpedo and almost get out a fourth. And of course, there is no cooldown, so as soon as the ability is 'used up' you can reuse it. 

posted on July 18th, 2010, 6:49 pm

Do you mean over the course of the ability or instantly?

posted on July 18th, 2010, 6:57 pm

Over the course

posted on July 18th, 2010, 7:09 pm

i didnt know its precise volley was weaker than remores, i dont like playing feds as it's too easy.

about percentages, i can read the guide i know how unlikely it is to get them in large numbers, but every time i have played a match where warpin was involved, the torp neb was very common, i've seen several double torp neb warpins.

What's the problem again?

my point is that it comes by default with a nice special, even if not as powerful as the remore (which is super awesome), its still awesome. the remore requires two chassis levels and a big yard. the torp neb just walks in. i guess if the torp neb needed the remore's research before it could do precise volley it would be better.

then people would complain that the neb has no special without research, it could be given the galaxy's special, they are of the same time and similar in design, it could probably do the spread fire torps too.

posted on July 18th, 2010, 7:34 pm

Well, I can't speak to balancing arguments like "it's super awesome" , I can only tell you that the precise volley of the nebula torp refit does 28% of the Remore's precise volley damage, and that's if you round up.

I wouldn't mind seeing a different ability for it, as the abilities it has now feels more like a placeholder.  But you'd have to get 4 of them firing all at once to equal (or rather, slightly exceed) the remore's ability.  So that's 20 supplies down the drain, and as good as the fed's supply situation is, doing that constantly will drain you.

I'm right with Dom as far as the energy recharge is concerned.  I think decreasing the regen would solve most problems, as you wouldn't get as much bang for your buck with each use.

posted on July 18th, 2010, 7:40 pm

Heh, for a second there Myles you confused me - I could have sworn you said "I tested this a lot, and this is why I think this" 

posted on July 18th, 2010, 8:00 pm

Maybe it should be renamed to "Sort of Precise Volley" - "As the Nebula's targeting computers are not quite as advanced as the Remore's, they can hit vital areas in a similar fashion....sort of."

Or better yet

"In order to increase the effectiveness of the Nebula, a tactical cadet from Red Squad   fires precise salvos, even though he only got a passing grade in his tactical course. :kid:"