Making Excelsior I a REAL Destroyer

[Boggz]

posted on October 27th, 2009, 7:34 am

Last edited by Boggz on October 27th, 2009, 7:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

Helloooo!

  So I know this has been the topic of much speculation, SOME research, and ultimately a few answers.  But as I understand it now the way it works on the Warped-in Excelsior one is:

  It is INTENDED to be a Destroyer.

  Technically weapon-wise it is a battleship:
- 100% hitchance from torpedos
- 40% damage reduction from pulse weapons

  Now I don't know if the devs have decided what is to become of this odd arrangement for 3.0.8 but I'd like to suggest that the Excelsior I being made permanently a true destroyer, with all the hitchance's and damage reductions given to a destroyer.
   
  WHY:
   As it stands: a fed Warp-in can give Excelsior I's, Steamrunner's, Ambassador's, Nebula's, and Galaxy's.  Excelsior is the most common form and usually comes in a pair.  (Can someone provide the math for the warp-in class chances?)  What that means is:
  3/5 are classified as cruisers and therefore get 20% reduction to pulse weapons and 80% hitchance from torpedoes.
  2/5 are classified as battleships and get 40% reduction from pulse weapons while taking 100% of torpedoes.

   What that means for a race that relies heavily on early pulse weapons is:  40-20 % reduction of your primary starting force's weapons.  I.E: Romulans and Klingons.

Exceptions: 
- Romulans can tech quickly to Rhienn Disruptor Refit.  True, though 2/3 of the ships weapons are still pulse based.  Shrikes are pulse based as well and yet for some reason can disable an Excelsior's weapons  .
-  Klingons can go with KbeajQ destroyers instead of Brel's.  If they are Martok and quick on their feet they can field Susa's instead.  If they are REALLY quick they may be able to have some Sang's on hand.
-  Borg are just in deep shit unless they quickly get an assimilator or Sphere out.  Detectors will still do alright but with an offensive rating of 8 they are paltry distractions at best.  The borg early torpedoes actually do LESS damage to ships of Bship status
-  Dominion are beam and torpedo based early on and suffer few penalties against a warp-in.

  I just feel there is no real reason to classify the Excelsior as a battleship for just weapon's sake.  If we think about how fast and maneuverable the Excelsior is in combat anyway it seems as though it would be more adept at dodging torpedoes and take normal damage from pulse weapons like the saber or monsoon.

    For no other sake - that way the Fed's can warp-in destroyers, cruisers, or a battleship.  Makes sense to me!  The only reason I could see to keep the Excel I a Bship in weapon terms is to offset the fact that the Fed's have excellent early game destroyers and basically it keeps the Excell I from being a stronger Saber with torpedoes.

    Anyone agree or disagree?   :thumbsup:

EDIT:  realized Detector Graviton torpedoes do less to Battleships and Stations, not Cruisers and Battleships

posted on October 27th, 2009, 7:38 am

-  Borg are just in deep shit unless they quickly get an assimilator or Sphere out.  Detectors will still do alright but with an offensive rating of 8 they are paltry distractions at best.  The borg early torpedoes actually do LESS damage to ships cruiser based or larger 

I disagree, likewise; I'm sure the majority of the community will. It all just seems a bit too far fetched, pay nothing for a ship that apparently even the Borg fear...

posted on October 27th, 2009, 7:53 am

I disagree, likewise; I'm sure the majority of the community will. It all just seems a bit too far fetched, pay nothing for a ship that apparently even the Borg fear...

  I don't think you read this carefully ...

  Right now for all intensive purposes the Excelsior I (That warps in) is a battleship and takes less damage from the Detector's graviton torpedoes.  I fear Warp-in as a Borg because it's not likely you'll have your sphere out by the time they show up and you have to play cat-and-mouse with your detectors until the sphere is ready or you lose.

  And why do you think everyone will disagree?  You don't even give a reason

posted on October 27th, 2009, 7:59 am

 

posted on October 27th, 2009, 9:35 am

the Excelsior is not classified as a battleship, its a destroyer of medium size. there was just an error in the hit chance formulas putting out wrong hit chances for a few selected vessels (not only the excelsior). that has been fixed

posted on October 27th, 2009, 9:35 am

The only thing I've ever pulled off against warp-in early with the Borg is lure the ships near my Conduction Matrix, and Uni-complex them.  Once they're assimilated and recrewed, I have some ships!

But if they refuse to get near a transmission matrix, conduction matrix, or assimilation matrix, I have to wait for the big guns, or burn vital resources on probes or...ugh...scout cubes.

posted on October 27th, 2009, 5:09 pm

the Excelsior is not classified as a battleship, its a destroyer of medium size. there was just an error in the hit chance formulas putting out wrong hit chances for a few selected vessels (not only the excelsior). that has been fixed

Done and Done.

  Thank ye kindly!

posted on October 27th, 2009, 8:33 pm

Does that mean that the idiot Torps will now turn away from more ships?

Great, now FO Torps are closer to being as dumb as FO pilots...

[Zebh]

posted on October 27th, 2009, 8:40 pm

Last edited by Zebh on October 27th, 2009, 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The best pilots are assigned to fly the ships, and the dumber pilots are put to fly torpedoes 

posted on October 27th, 2009, 8:43 pm

Helloooo!
  3/5 are classified as cruisers and therefore get 20% reduction to pulse weapons and 80% hitchance from torpedoes.
  2/5 are classified as battleships and get 40% reduction from pulse weapons while taking 100% of torpedoes.

Just one thing to clarify out of the Warp in: only the Steamrunner is a Cruiser currently (medium sized vessel). The Nebula, Galaxy, Ambassador, and Excelsior are all "large" vessels (battleships) currently.

posted on October 27th, 2009, 8:49 pm

Which is what they should be... The Excelsior is only called a Destroyer because other ships have more powerful weapons, not because the ship itself is designed to be weak.

posted on October 27th, 2009, 9:10 pm

Just one thing to clarify out of the Warp in: only the Steamrunner is a Cruiser currently (medium sized vessel). The Nebula, Galaxy, Ambassador, and Excelsior are all "large" vessels (battleships) currently.

  Ah good.  Once again I rely on you to clarify my errors

Now if what Optec is saying is that the Excelsior will be a through and through destroyer in the patch, there should actually be a better chance of defeating warp-ins easier in the early game.

posted on October 27th, 2009, 10:04 pm

Aye indeed . I wonder if the other vessel's designations were incorrect as well though 

posted on October 29th, 2009, 10:31 pm

Optec said it clearly: The Exc-I is a Destroyer, a medium sized Destroyer, as far as Fleet Ops goes. The fact that the Shrike special affects it shows that. He also said that there was a mistake in the formulas for the Excelsior and several other ships about their hit chances. That doesn't change the fact that, besides those errors, the ship as far as FO goes, is a Destroyer.

Do not confuse designation/role with size. FO could have a "large" Destroyer, or a "small" battleship.

posted on October 29th, 2009, 11:09 pm

In a way, I think of the Phalanx as a very large, very expensive destroyer.