Klingon miners/k'tingas

posted on May 6th, 2011, 11:33 pm

It will be fun, you could get to watch them do a cool animation while the timer is running, instead of the sudden pod flyoff thing. Also, this could cause the enemy to aim for the K'tinga, giving your decloaking ships an extra second or so of not being fired on by the enemy, making for a fun ambush.

posted on May 6th, 2011, 11:49 pm

maybe when the pods are dispatched the serve as a surprise to torpedo tracking systems and cause a higher miss rate for a second or two. like dropping decoys.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 12:30 am

I think for balance those miners changing into k'tingas should have a delay on it or not being able to change while underattack

The whole point of dumping pods is BOOM miner ejects its storage pods and is a warship, BOO!.

this is taking away raiding from klingons

How is it taking raiding away from klinks ?

It's quite balanced this version, sure last version you could cloak right away AND go real fast, not to mention pop pods anywhere....... but that WAS over powered.

i had a tourney game with redeye and we were raiding each others mining

Yes, mining gets raided. Key point: Send a force strong enough to kill all crunchy bits quickly so it can run.

he could destroy mine but i could not destroy his

YOUR DOING IT WRONG!!!
(example)
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Ok so he has 6 miners that MAY become ktingas ?

Kill them. if you cant, send a bigger raiding party.

because he instatly turned into k'tingas and flew off to repair

So why not.... kill them.

at first thought at least he doesnt have miners but neither do i and he has another 6 ships for his fleet

So kill them, rank up yer stuffs.

  which he is now using to raid

HE was doing it RITE.

PROTIP: AMBUSH RAIDERS.

  they became cannon fodder when my rhiens and lahevals engaged his sangs, i lost even tho i had superiority because my fleet would auto target the k'tingas.

So.... manualy target!

This isnt balanced

Yes it is. Build century old battle cruiser with mining pods/magic-beam added to it, have ability to suddenly get a modern refit of a century old battle crusier.

it needs a delay it doesn tmake sense that they can just dispatch cargo containers and then have a fully functioning disruptor cannon ready to fire

Why not. How would cargo containers prevent firing. It's more likely that power WAS going to the mining beam, with the disruptor on hot standby, ready to go.

the disruptor cannon is not online to begin with

Oh ? How so ? It simpyl doesnt FIRE the disruptor, likely because it's busy firing a mining beam.

  so it should take time to enable the weapon like a pause with the new genrix.

So the last sentence has the actual idea: You want poping pods to cause the use of the refit/constructing mode such as the generix/newton etc etc .


If that were to be the case, the klink miner would need to return to were it was last version, it gets full stats, as it takes extra time to make it active AND it isnt able to instantly defend itself like it used to.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 1:18 am

I like Myles point about decoys. If they were given a time delay, which I still don't support, but at the very least, make the storage containers of dilithium tritanium serve as being targets for a short time and say give the miners a 50% miss chance. Their engines are certainly now more effective, even if they need time to get their weapons up, you should be able to evade torpedoes and pulse weapons much better. Beams still hit.

I would only want the time delay to be like 2-3 seconds. When you see the enemy, if you pop right away, they have just enough time to get right on top of the ktinga, and therefore one free volley. Or if that takes 5 seconds fine. But if you cant beat them in one volley, or enough that by the second volley they are destroyed, let the miner escape.

If there is a delay, the topmey should still have engines, and be able to move with increased speed. Only the disruptor should take several seconds. Keep the 19 defense as well. If the disruptor isnt taking power, defense is still up or whatever.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 2:17 am

I like Myles point about decoys. If they were given a time delay, which I still don't support, but at the very least, make the storage containers of dilithium tritanium serve as being targets for a short time and say give the miners a 50% miss chance. Their engines are certainly now more effective, even if they need time to get their weapons up, you should be able to evade torpedoes and pulse weapons much better. Beams still hit.

I would only want the time delay to be like 2-3 seconds. When you see the enemy, if you pop right away, they have just enough time to get right on top of the ktinga, and therefore one free volley. Or if that takes 5 seconds fine. But if you cant beat them in one volley, or enough that by the second volley they are destroyed, let the miner escape.

If there is a delay, the topmey should still have engines, and be able to move with increased speed. Only the disruptor should take several seconds. Keep the 19 defense as well. If the disruptor isnt taking power, defense is still up or whatever.

If there is a delay, the K'tinga should get cloak as well as the stats of a K'tinga that got a kill soon as it popped pod with the current version.

That said I still think it should stay as is.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 2:42 am

Tok'ra, I'm not sure I understand, please clarify about K'tinga getting cloak.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 3:04 am

I think he means if the delay is put in, the ktinga remains unable to fire for 5 seconds or what have you. But once it is a Ktinga there is no 30 sec wait for cloak.

If it survives the transition from topmey to ktinga it can cloak right away. Is my understanding.

An interesting suggestion. But I would actually favor that to the current version possibly. It would be stronger for the Klingon player in my view. But I guess the topmey would be a sitting duck for the time in between. so close call.

Now, even if the ktinga gets its immediate switch over, you can still target it and probably get a quick kill from a weak ship... even if they are fast.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 3:20 am

This whole thing about the disruptors being offline...I have one word for you.

Klingons.

I'll say it again.

KLINGONS.

The only reason the Tompey can't shoot is because the bloody mining beam is eating too much energy.  The moment they eject that civilian equipment, and reclaim their rightful place as warriors, they have their power supplies back the way they should be.  Then they can send you to Gre'thor, or go to Sto'vo'kor trying.

The concept of a Klingon ship with weapons turned completely off is like a Federation ship without shields.

And yes, blow up the K'ting'a right away.  If you actually let the things get kills, last time I checked they'll eventually get a passive that will annoy the crap out of you.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 3:22 am

A lot of the harassment done in the early game is not even about KILLING a miner - but just about making it repair and therefore gather more slowly.

  If a K'tinga is made from popping - that miner was destroyed to create a scout (more or less).

  No change necessary.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 3:53 am

agreed, and agreed

"Klingons will always be ready to revert to a weapons firing destroyer. It's probably something they practice in their sleep." - 1st page

I agree with him too.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 4:42 am

actually, to be honest,  id like to see a system where you could convert ktingas back into topmey for supplies

add a port to the exterior of a mining station, and for say 2-3 supplies, or some cost, restock the ktinga with storage containers and pop it back to topmey

this would be costly. supplies already screw the klingons. making them pay more supplies, for which they already paid for that topmey. of course it has its benefits too. you get your mining back

no chance to revert if your ktinga ranks up.

if you pop three topmeys, it would be approx 9 supply to get them back.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 6:50 am

That's problematic godsvoice. You pay 8supplies for a miner, which you now lose if you turn it to a Ktinga. With your proposal one could easily pop, run to the starbase and come back. Using 9 supplies to prevent using 24supplies(3new topmeys)  - not fair.

Tok'ra: I agree with you here in every point(doesn't happen often).
Kestrel: Manual target the sangs then. You are not new to this game, you should be able to do that. As I said, it's like blaming a Dominion player to use C-11s for tanking. These also have a bad cost/power ratio.

Nebula: In 5seconds even the topmey defense wouldn't help. Nobody would pop a miner then, I'd rather try to run away with the slow topmey than staying 5seconds, which is instant death. Most of the time even the less than 1second break caused by replaceweapon is not enough to get away with a Ktinga.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 7:23 am

Tok'ra: I agree with you here in every point(doesn't happen often).

I dont actually support the change, I like it like it is, however I was just providing constructive feedback.

Nebula: In 5seconds even the topmey defense wouldn't help. Nobody would pop a miner then, I'd rather try to run away with the slow topmey than staying 5seconds, which is instant death. Most of the time even the less than 1second break caused by replaceweapon is not enough to get away with a Ktinga.

Depends: if I KNOW I will loose SOME I'd rather pop, and possibly damage or kill one or two of his ships as tehy chase the ktingas, especilly if that is drawing the raiders closer to my fleet.

it happens.

posted on May 7th, 2011, 12:07 pm

let me clarify my decoys idea, the cargo pods fly off immediately, making a couple torps miss, at the same time the topmey stops moving and refits for a few seconds. enough time for a normal raiding party to kill 1 refitting ship.

the sarcasm and condescending tone in this post is gonna make for a fun flame war

posted on May 7th, 2011, 3:32 pm

well, yes of course it would be cheaper than building new topmeys, ive already built it, its just now otherwise occupied.

all im looking for the ktinga to do is say hey mining station, i helped fight off some destroyers, and now i want my storage containers back, so load me up with some new ones, and ill be a topmey again.

it would be an advantage of course, and i wasnt seriously suggesting it but still, i think it would be nice. maybe a small tritanium and dilithium cost as well. but the point would be to get my ktinga back to being a topmey for a smaller cost than building a new one. you would still hinder my resource collection by raiding. and now, im wasting a destroyer that i chose to pop. 50 di, 50 tri, 3 supply.

im still happy with how it is now. i dont want to change it.

as per the clarified cargo pods... ugh. i dont like the idea of offering my vessels as sitting ducks. basically this suggestion (the thread) is saying through a time delay, that I get raided, klingons have to freeze their miners in place so they can be shot more easily because if they become ktingas, theyll just get away. giving them a guaranteed free kill i just dont like it.