Impressions from a newbie

posted on May 17th, 2009, 10:18 am

Hi there.
I testes Fleet Ops a couple of weeks in Singe player and tried out to balance every race there. My first impressions were:

- The borg are mighty when they have a fleet but it is critical to play them in the early game. My wish for the borg are 'adaptive' shields and an extra enhancement slot avaible for every ship for 'great' costs.
I liked the idea for the adaptor but this ship is too weak to be a real 'mass combat' ship like the Akira/Norway for the Fed or the (two gold frontline warship) Battlecrusier for the dominion. I also like the idea of the assimilation beam, that this will beam borg drones to the enemy vessels so you not only 'disable' the ships. This would be good in a confusing fight, when you cant manage micro because of the great battle.
- I only played *against* the romulan and found out, that the turrets are a litte bit weak. I like to play a defensive strategy and for this the dominion and the Federation have a 'good' turret-platform behavior.
- Starbases are very weak against ships. They get killed very easiliy by a small flett if stand-alone.
- I want to have the 'build' option if I capture an enemy Starbase. If I capture a construction ship, I like to have the ability to re-build this construction ship. Not the warships.
- The Klingon empire is very hard to play. They have, so I feel no real good battleships instead of the Negh-Var, but this ship is weak in its defense. I needet to play much longer the klingon in Order to break through the enemy lines and this was only done unser high losses.
- The Federation emprie is okay, but they have problems against the borg. They also have no troop-ship, so it is hard for them to capture enemy vessels. They have good mid-range ships, but no real 'good' battleship. No frontline-breaker.

I like the idea, that every race get its own dreadnought. The borg have its tactical cube, but you can build unlimited numbers of them (if you have the time).
The romulans can max. build two dreadnoughts which are very powerful, but they are kind of capture ships. In one campaign I managed to capture 6 or 7 of these dreadnoughts when I fought with the dominion. I wanted to have the 'beam troops over' command so I thought about that this ability could be given for free.
The dominion dreadnought is only availbe with mixed tech. I took the 'borg-one' but is was, so it seemed when compared with the romulan one.
The Federation and the klingons dont have a dreadnought. Maybe it is possible to give them one? Maybe one for the federation over the borg-mixed tech?
- The Dominion, the romulans, the borg and the klingons need extended defense platforms. The Fed Quantum Torpedo is really cool and can take out much of the enemies, while the klingon and romulan defense turrents are relativly weak. The Dominion has got 'real' Defense Perimeters, but the have (in my eyes) a weak offensive behavior. It would be cool if you can add torpedos to them and give them something like a modular (like the borg ships) behavior. For example: The Defensive Perimeter can be equipped with 3 shield generators on the defensive side and with 3 offensive slots like polaron beam, torpedos and something else... like a second beam.

When every race gets such a perimeter it would be great. Then I dont need to place a starbase on every place I want to defend.
- When the borg capture an enemy ship, it would be great if you could add a slot to this ship so it will be anhanched. Up to now, it dont makes a real sense to capture ships for the borg, because you already have very good ships
- The KI wont build 'special' ships out of mixed tech. I want to have a borg-Miranda MK II or something like that.
- The troop ships are kind of misbalanced. They need to beam with shields down so they need better hull-armor instead of good shields because they get destroyed with shields down very easy. It would also be great if they have 'capture pods' so they send over so to say 40 crew at once instead of beaming them one by one. These actions are very time critical and my troop ships get destroyed very often thourgh that process.

I hope, I could give you some input with that :-)

Greetings,
Sheva

by the way: Sorry for my rubbish englisch

posted on May 17th, 2009, 12:34 pm

well let me say welcome to the forums.

some points to make.
1) the borg early game is weak, but not if played right. choose optimize and build lots of probes and scout cubes.

2) The klingons do not survive defencively, there the polar opposite to the federation. The feds have some of the best shields and longets range units, the klingons have weaker shields and short range but very high offenceive abilities.

3)The romulan turrets are not that weak, they fire torpedos and disruptors, where as the othere races have seperate turrets for these.

4)you are right about the addaptor, there is something happening to it in the patch, and if you look around the forums you will see alot of fantastic ideas from othere members.

5) Dominion... weak offensive.... you are joking. The dominion if played right can hand late game borg on a silver plate. The v-13 is more powerful than any battleship the other races could put out.

6)The Dominion has the perimiter cause of its prototypes... If you attack a fed starbase and destroy someships, they will build them again... the dom on the other hand have to rebuild their protoypes, a long build time to. The Perimiter allows that extra defence if the dom suddenly find they can only build bug ships and they have a borg cube to fight.

posted on May 17th, 2009, 12:44 pm

- The troop ships are kind of misbalanced. They need to beam with shields down so they need better hull-armor instead of good shields because they get destroyed with shields down very easy. It would also be great if they have 'capture pods' so they send over so to say 40 crew at once instead of beaming them one by one. These actions are very time critical and my troop ships get destroyed very often thourgh that process.

Agreed, but the old Klingon shuttle thing is hardcoded

- Starbases are very weak against ships. They get killed very easiliy by a small fleet if stand-alone.

Not so sure I agree with you completely, but it would be nice if starbases could hold their own as outposts. That's how they used to be in stock - pretty much the ultimate turret...
I can't help but think that perhaps each race should replace starbase construction with "outpost" construction, and begin with a large spacedock-type station.

- I want to have the 'build' option if I capture an enemy Starbase. If I capture a construction ship, I like to have the ability to re-build this construction ship. Not the warships.

Never captured an enemy starbase, I just haven't been bothered to. But this is a good idea! Or maybe just give the starbase the same build options as the corresponding mixed-tech yard?

-The Federation and the klingons dont have a dreadnought. Maybe it is possible to give them one? Maybe one for the federation over the borg-mixed tech?

This was m favourite idea of the whole list. DO WANT FED/BORG DREADNAUGHT

[Donny_m]

posted on May 17th, 2009, 2:10 pm

Last edited by Donny_m on May 17th, 2009, 2:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hi Everyone i am a newbie to the forum aswell, but i have been playing for a while, just want to say wow! to the FO team you guys are awesome keep up the great work.

i agree with the other newbie about the starbases being alittle weak tho, but i have a few ideas too
-maybe you could make it for example the feds, instead of upgrading the outpost any stronger, keep them as is outposts and maybe if you build two or three of them you unlock the ability to build an actual fed starbase, those huge blue ones lol dont know there class name (build limit of one, and cost alot) which there is meant to be over 500 of them in federation space, and if FO is meant to take place long after the events of nemesis, this means that the federation would most likely built more of them and it could be like a higher research station too. don't know how you could balance it with the other races though unless you do the same for them, but thats to much work any other ideas ?

- misbalanced troops ships aren't that bad a thing though because each race has different characteristics for races like the the dominion, Klingon and borg you would think they would have stronger boarding ships than say the federation and the romulans, though i think the oberth class would make a good addition for the feds troops ship.

- i agree with the romulans needing more defense platforms, it would make them that little bit more stronger in defense of there base which would make for a better battle.

- one thought that i had about the federation is that there mainly about variety, all about using alot of different ships in there fleet, which i dont feel they're enough ship for them yet, and to stop OP the fed have many different ships share the same role like cruisers and the same or simular cost. so it would be down to the player what to use for each role or use more than one depending them. which i am happy to hear there there is already going to be new fed ships in the next patch. 

dont agree about captured enemy starbases though, i think they should just do the same as the starbase of the race who captured it, because you didnt see the feds build galor class ship after they took DS9 lol i like it the way it is that you are the race you choose and thats it unless capture the ship your after.

thanks and sorry if this has came up before.

ps. a fed dreadnought would be welcomed
 

[Sheva]

posted on May 17th, 2009, 2:45 pm

Last edited by Sheva on May 17th, 2009, 2:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I dont mentioned that a captured starbase will produce a full fledged construction ship for building all kinds of station and ships of another race. I meant, that when I capture a starbase, I can build new construcion ships which will be able to build mixed-tech yards. Up to now, you only can get these ships when you capture them, but the starbase can buil them.

BUT you are NOT able to use their technology.

MAYBE after capturing a starbase or a construction ship, you can not only enhance you fleet with mixed-tech ships, but you may also get enhancements for you defensive turrets or get mixed-tech defensive turrets/perimeters.

Like I said, the actual version is doing a great job for offensive players but is a litle weak for turtles like me :-)
A 'real' defense would be nice. Up to now, I build up to 30 or 40 defensive turrets to defend my position and brought some 'shield repair' vessels to them before I attacked the enemy with the rest of my fleet.

Well, the perfect turtle-Map for me is Nirvana II, so maybe you get the picture, how 5 Starbases and 40 turrets look like around the wormhole 

But I think, these installations should'nt be only defensive patterns.

I think on 3 or 4 steps:
1 - turret (like we have now)
2 - defensive platform (a little bit larger but maybe equiped with 2 weapon systems)
3- defensive perimenter (large, mighty, very good defense and offense and maybe a special ability)
4 - Battlestation (This will replace the outpost/starbase and got no building options but is highly advanced. More firepower than the starbase, equal defensive parameters with slightly increased shield-reg-rate)

Maybe for such stations, we should add 'energy'. I saw myself building 50+ turrets and I asked myself: 'Hmm, were do I get the energy for that *planetary defense system* 

So mybe i 3.07 we can make diffrent types of defensive patterns and have a new recource like energy that will automaticly produced by mining stations OR we put back the idea of planets which will - when colonized give you a specific amount on energy for your turrets. :-)

posted on May 17th, 2009, 3:30 pm

Welcome to the forums!

Hi there, I'm glad you like fleetops. But I don't agree with most of your suggestions, sorry. But I think that's just because you aren't very experienced.
Go out there and play more online games, read some of the strategy guides and beat some people. Then you'll have a better idea of balance.

I'm not trying to insult you at all by the way. It's just we get a lot of similar threads from people who just found the mod and play against AI expecting it to be close enough to multiplayer. Unfortunately that isn't the case.

Some of your suggestions also don't fit the character of the races the team are trying to convey. And in general, base defenses should be weak, to avoid encouraging turtling too much. And the closest thing the Federation has to a dreadnought is the Descent, the one you get from Starfleet Command.

Good Day, and I hope you enjoy the mod even more (especially when we get this huge new patch coming out )

On the other hand, I love some of your suggestions

posted on May 18th, 2009, 2:39 am

I agree with you about capturing a starbase. It seems to me if you spend all of the effort to capture one that you should be able to get mixed tech from it. The stations are going to be changed in the next patch and while i agree that right now they are weak i am hoping they will be upgraded in the next patch. They also will become more customizable. One final point is that the a federation dreadnought does not fit in with their character. They are a organization of exploration not a organization of war. A dreadnought's primary reason to exist is to destroy, so therefore the federation has no need for it. Now it would fitting for them to have something like a pocket battleship that they could call an escort or something of that nature. Also the klingons dont build large battleships like the romulan or the dominion do so its not really in their nature to have them either.

posted on May 18th, 2009, 6:26 am

I disagree. If you look at the defiant and akira, they are both pure warships (and the defiant already serves that pocket battleship role). Also, i seem to recall that there were older (TMP or TOS) "dreadnought" class vessels that belonged to the federation. So yeah i wouldn't mind if the feds had a super powerful vessel; it seems like its a big hole in their lineup since they cant really spam vessels like the klingons or dominion. Sure you got good specials but sometimes i just wanna play the feds and steamroll AIs which is hard to do without microing, and im not that good at it.

- The troopships do really need a good hull, i agree completely on this point. And what do you mean the klingon shuttle ability is hardcoded? im pretty sure you can stick a new sod, change the properties, stick it on whatever ship you want.... so [lolvoice]i can haz commando pod?[/lolvoice]

- I would suggest a slightly different classification:
1. Light turret (a little weaker/cheaper than the one we have now)
2. Heavy turret (a little stronger/expensiver than we have now with maybe a specialty weapon)
3. Outpost (closer to the starbase we have now but a little weaker for construction at your mining operations)
4. Starbase (the thing you would get at the start, super expensive and heavy but offers lotso power)
however this would have exceptions all over the place as each races base setup is different.

- The negh-var was built sometime in late TNG i think and as such, would very much qualify as a heavy dreadnought (at least when it was built). It does seem suspicious that they would not commission another, more powerful design. It would really be cool to see some battleship with like 10 pulse guns and 3 torpedoes! i could easily see this thing going up over 1 hundred offense with little defense; it would be the embodiment of everything that the klingons stand for in FO!

posted on May 18th, 2009, 7:51 am

the defiant and akira are pure warships and neither of them is even battleship sized. I wouldnt mind the federation having a powerful ship i just dont think it should be big. And the hulls of the troopships being tougher would be nice.

posted on May 18th, 2009, 8:14 am

- The negh-var was built sometime in late TNG i think and as such, would very much qualify as a heavy dreadnought (at least when it was built). It does seem suspicious that they would not commission another, more powerful design. It would really be cool to see some battleship with like 10 pulse guns and 3 torpedoes! i could easily see this thing going up over 1 hundred offense with little defense; it would be the embodiment of everything that the klingons stand for in FO!

It's not really suspicious, this is the klingons we are talking about. To be honest it is amazing they even built the negh'var. They only use ships that have been tried and tested a thousand times, the K'tinga design, the B'rel, the Vorcha.
The negh'var wasn't seen in-universe until DS9 season 4 as far as I'm aware, so it is the newest ship in the fleet.

Klingon designs last for decades, which is why I'm confused about where all these new ships for them appeared for in FO. Some of them look really nice, but I think it's too many. But I digress...

posted on May 18th, 2009, 8:42 am

I'm pretty sure that correlates with around the end of TNG so yeah... but you do have a point they only use tested designs; but every design has to be new at some point eh?

posted on May 18th, 2009, 11:31 am

Very true, but I don't see why, in 10-30 years or however long FO is set after nemesis, the klingons produce zillions of new designs, when they had one for about 30 years at least, and another that has lasted closer to 100.

posted on May 18th, 2009, 6:54 pm

well the problem with alien races is that you often only have a hand full of vessels seen in the shows. ake the Romulans for example, their fleet would exist only of warbirds Therefore we added vessels in order to make them a playable race.not all of them are historically new. The Vutpa for example is ment to be a very old yet rare design.

posted on May 18th, 2009, 6:55 pm

well the problem with alien races is that you often only have a hand full of vessels seen in the shows. ake the Romulans for example, their fleet would exist only of warbirds Therefore we added vessels in order to make them a playable race.not all of them are historically new. The Vutpa for example is ment to be a very old yet rare design.

doesnt the vutpa look like the klingon academy klingon battleship design... and the luspet the KA Kt'inga2... the one wit the gravity weapon and 3 warp engines.

posted on May 20th, 2009, 12:05 pm

I RECENTLY  GOT INTO STAR TREK ARMADA 2 AFTER BUYING IT AT A YARD SAL3 FER 2 DOLLARS, I DOWNLOADED FLEET OPS AND LET ME TELL U THIS IS AWESOME , THE ONLY THING THAT I THINK WOULD BE AWESOME , WHEN YOU CAPTURE A ROMULAN SHIP THE DEFIANT SHOULD BE ABLE TO CLOAK VIA MIXED TECH , [DS9 STYLE] THAT WOULD BE SWEET , ON THE OTHER HAND I DUNNO HOW MUCH THIS WOULD THROW THE BALANCE OUT OF WACK BUT EITHER WAY GREAT JOB ON THIS GAME