First Impressions - Romulans
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Sauron
Topic Starter
posted on June 10th, 2009, 4:32 pm
First off I must say that the mods have really brought out the character of my favorite race pretty well, so kudos on that 
I would like to share a few impressions I have on them. I have played a few RTses so I hope my feedback will be of use.
1. Rhienns:
The rhienns are a pretty versatile ship. The refit makes them very robust and good at taking down an array of ships from borg assimilators to klingon Birds of Prey. Rhienn costs along with the overall armaments and durability make it one tough little ship.
However, I do see where it is slightly imbalanced, and tends to be slight overkill for its class. This one aspect is its extra long range.
the rhienn unlike other ships that have long range fire, can fire more than one weapon from a distance with striking accuracy - especially the beam refit.
That coupled with its speed and ability higher endurance than other front end ships, gives the Rhienn a slight overbite.
We all agree that it is canon that Romulans like to fire from afar. however, when they do, their weapons dissipate in strength. this would be the best way for a rhienn refit not to outpower and outclass even a breen cruiser.
As I see it, the Romulan rhienn range if retained, should be accompanied with a degradation of the firepower of its refitted weapons in direct proportion to its distance from the target.
Its basic disruptor pulses can do their damage, but not the addons of torp and beam.
Also, I seem to notice that the Rhienn disruptor beam tends to do as much damage as the twin blasts from its basic weapon. It may be worth a look over by the mods, but it appears that it is doing 14 damage with both the beam hit as well as the twin disruptors, making it fire twice as much and inflict at times double damage for one shot.
2. D'deridex:
I'm not sure if the other members share my opinion, but the D'deridex seems to be rendered useless or secondary in current gameplay.
From my trials, the norexan seems to be more worth the resources. I agree of course, as the norexan is a more recent and advanced ship, so it is bound to be more optimized.
However, the D'deridex if in game has to be an earlier ship, and the only way that would be possible is if the station unlocking sequence were modified as it is in the other RTSes Ive played where the user can unlock the inefficient advanced class first, and then the more efficient battleship.
3. Serkas:
this ship is good. but for some reason it keeps moving towards the starbase or station when i click on attack, even when it is capable of standing where it is and attacking. It does get annoying that they keep moving even when in firing range.
4. Shrike:
The shrike is a good ship. versatile and packing a decent punch. however, it tends to be rendered redundant with the overkill of the rhienn. At this time it does not really help much, other than maybe looking neat on the build list. But everything it does, a rhienn can do better, and for about the same costs - not exactly the same, but the disparity is not worth the switch.
I hope my first contribution will prove useful.
I would like to share a few impressions I have on them. I have played a few RTses so I hope my feedback will be of use.
1. Rhienns:
The rhienns are a pretty versatile ship. The refit makes them very robust and good at taking down an array of ships from borg assimilators to klingon Birds of Prey. Rhienn costs along with the overall armaments and durability make it one tough little ship.
However, I do see where it is slightly imbalanced, and tends to be slight overkill for its class. This one aspect is its extra long range.
the rhienn unlike other ships that have long range fire, can fire more than one weapon from a distance with striking accuracy - especially the beam refit.
That coupled with its speed and ability higher endurance than other front end ships, gives the Rhienn a slight overbite.
We all agree that it is canon that Romulans like to fire from afar. however, when they do, their weapons dissipate in strength. this would be the best way for a rhienn refit not to outpower and outclass even a breen cruiser.
As I see it, the Romulan rhienn range if retained, should be accompanied with a degradation of the firepower of its refitted weapons in direct proportion to its distance from the target.
Its basic disruptor pulses can do their damage, but not the addons of torp and beam.
Also, I seem to notice that the Rhienn disruptor beam tends to do as much damage as the twin blasts from its basic weapon. It may be worth a look over by the mods, but it appears that it is doing 14 damage with both the beam hit as well as the twin disruptors, making it fire twice as much and inflict at times double damage for one shot.
2. D'deridex:
I'm not sure if the other members share my opinion, but the D'deridex seems to be rendered useless or secondary in current gameplay.
From my trials, the norexan seems to be more worth the resources. I agree of course, as the norexan is a more recent and advanced ship, so it is bound to be more optimized.
However, the D'deridex if in game has to be an earlier ship, and the only way that would be possible is if the station unlocking sequence were modified as it is in the other RTSes Ive played where the user can unlock the inefficient advanced class first, and then the more efficient battleship.
3. Serkas:
this ship is good. but for some reason it keeps moving towards the starbase or station when i click on attack, even when it is capable of standing where it is and attacking. It does get annoying that they keep moving even when in firing range.
4. Shrike:
The shrike is a good ship. versatile and packing a decent punch. however, it tends to be rendered redundant with the overkill of the rhienn. At this time it does not really help much, other than maybe looking neat on the build list. But everything it does, a rhienn can do better, and for about the same costs - not exactly the same, but the disparity is not worth the switch.
I hope my first contribution will prove useful.
posted on June 10th, 2009, 4:41 pm
posted on June 10th, 2009, 4:45 pm
Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on June 10th, 2009, 6:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sauron
Topic Starter
posted on June 10th, 2009, 5:15 pm
Yes, Ive tried putting the serkas on low autonomy of course. But was confirming if it was a bug. Thanks 
I'm still not so sure about the D'deridex and rhienn explanation though.
The analysis of the D'deridex keeping the fleet intact is a bit abstract IMO. It's special does tend to reduce hits to you, but a few d'deridex will usually suffice for that. It kinda makes the class more support oriented if I want to focus on that specific role.
Also, I dont see that particular effect to be placing the d'deridex as a battleship.
I can simply use the firepower of the norexans and the support effects from generixes and leahvals instead of using resources for the D'deridex, and my fleet would fare better still. so the D'deridex ends up being more of a bad alternative to the generix support.
I do understand that they are different abilities, but in an RTS the end goal is to wipe out as many of the other guy as efficiently as possible.
If we focus on the D'deridex's role as you've described, we end up having a ship that is trying to be support and battleship and yet doing neither very well.
as regards the rhienn, I hope I did not miscommunicate anything. My suggestion is more towards the diminishing firepower from a distance issue.
I see where a romulan player will have to face canaverals, sabres and a warp in against the feds. but by that time he will have leahvals, shrikes and rhienns. Also, we cannot use just feds as a benchmark. I hope this is not taken the wrong way, but I don't see the cost and build speed reducing usage power when the ship is quick and able to take down larger ships like the breen cruiser, and borg assimilators from a distance.
Hence in keeping with true romulan style (as we already have the doubled fire on entry into fire) I thought it would be more balanced to see the special refitted weapons dealing damage inversely proportionate to the distance from the target.
I'm still not so sure about the D'deridex and rhienn explanation though.
The analysis of the D'deridex keeping the fleet intact is a bit abstract IMO. It's special does tend to reduce hits to you, but a few d'deridex will usually suffice for that. It kinda makes the class more support oriented if I want to focus on that specific role.
Also, I dont see that particular effect to be placing the d'deridex as a battleship.
I can simply use the firepower of the norexans and the support effects from generixes and leahvals instead of using resources for the D'deridex, and my fleet would fare better still. so the D'deridex ends up being more of a bad alternative to the generix support.
I do understand that they are different abilities, but in an RTS the end goal is to wipe out as many of the other guy as efficiently as possible.
If we focus on the D'deridex's role as you've described, we end up having a ship that is trying to be support and battleship and yet doing neither very well.
as regards the rhienn, I hope I did not miscommunicate anything. My suggestion is more towards the diminishing firepower from a distance issue.
I see where a romulan player will have to face canaverals, sabres and a warp in against the feds. but by that time he will have leahvals, shrikes and rhienns. Also, we cannot use just feds as a benchmark. I hope this is not taken the wrong way, but I don't see the cost and build speed reducing usage power when the ship is quick and able to take down larger ships like the breen cruiser, and borg assimilators from a distance.
Hence in keeping with true romulan style (as we already have the doubled fire on entry into fire) I thought it would be more balanced to see the special refitted weapons dealing damage inversely proportionate to the distance from the target.
posted on June 10th, 2009, 6:36 pm
Well, as I said, the D'deridex in my opinion is a support oriented battleship: it is late game, expensive, and thus the fact that you only need a few of them (5-10) to use their special is well addressed.
However, I don't think this is a fair assumption, because the Generix does not play the same role as the D'deridex. Likewise, the Generix actually excells when combined with this battleship, because of the heavy shields. With smaller ships, enough combined firepower will shred them faster than shield recharge can work. With the D'deridex (as well as the Norexan/Cehlaer/Eresis/Tavara), Generixes do a better job.
This I find to be rather doubtful: a good Romulan player will usually build between 6-10 Rhienns at the beginning, and in the same amount of time a Federation player will have at least 2 Canverals, 3-6 warp in vessels (via normal) and a few Sabers (or Norways depending on the strategy). Combining Shrikes and Leahvals is likely, but combining Rhienns and Shrikes, or Rhienns Shrikes and Leahvals is rather unlikely. Shrikes and Rhienns are pretty much mutually exclussive between the avatars, and if you go for Rhienns you'll generally tech up fairly quickly to Generixs, whereas if you go for Shrikes, you want to make Leahvals next (Generixs are too high up in the tech tree at that point)
Something similar would have to be implemented for every other race, otherwise the Romulans would be essentially shafted. You point out that Rhienns can take on Assimilators easily (which I hardly believe), but can you imagine what would happen if Rhienns had to close to do any damage to the enemy? The Breen Cruiser which you mentioned is a Cruiser: already the Rhienns pulses do less damage, and the Cruiser will never be alone. Doing one on one comparisons doesn't work, as the Cruiser isn't even the same tech level as the Rhienn (plus the Cruiser is in a weird spot now with the addition of torps.... which are supposed to do more damage vs destroyers... but miss 40% of the time
).
so the D'deridex ends up being more of a bad alternative to the generix support.
However, I don't think this is a fair assumption, because the Generix does not play the same role as the D'deridex. Likewise, the Generix actually excells when combined with this battleship, because of the heavy shields. With smaller ships, enough combined firepower will shred them faster than shield recharge can work. With the D'deridex (as well as the Norexan/Cehlaer/Eresis/Tavara), Generixes do a better job.
I see where a romulan player will have to face canaverals, sabres and a warp in against the feds. but by that time he will have leahvals, shrikes and rhienns.
This I find to be rather doubtful: a good Romulan player will usually build between 6-10 Rhienns at the beginning, and in the same amount of time a Federation player will have at least 2 Canverals, 3-6 warp in vessels (via normal) and a few Sabers (or Norways depending on the strategy). Combining Shrikes and Leahvals is likely, but combining Rhienns and Shrikes, or Rhienns Shrikes and Leahvals is rather unlikely. Shrikes and Rhienns are pretty much mutually exclussive between the avatars, and if you go for Rhienns you'll generally tech up fairly quickly to Generixs, whereas if you go for Shrikes, you want to make Leahvals next (Generixs are too high up in the tech tree at that point)
I thought it would be more balanced to see the special refitted weapons dealing damage inversely proportionate to the distance from the target.
Something similar would have to be implemented for every other race, otherwise the Romulans would be essentially shafted. You point out that Rhienns can take on Assimilators easily (which I hardly believe), but can you imagine what would happen if Rhienns had to close to do any damage to the enemy? The Breen Cruiser which you mentioned is a Cruiser: already the Rhienns pulses do less damage, and the Cruiser will never be alone. Doing one on one comparisons doesn't work, as the Cruiser isn't even the same tech level as the Rhienn (plus the Cruiser is in a weird spot now with the addition of torps.... which are supposed to do more damage vs destroyers... but miss 40% of the time
).posted on June 10th, 2009, 6:55 pm
Last edited by Anonymous on June 10th, 2009, 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I see what you're trying to say Sauron, and you'll find most of us here are of the same opinion.
The d'deridex atm is a "nice to have but easily done without", hence has no special reason to be included in any fleet the way the generix or norexans are must haves.
the rhienns are extremely long ranged. there is absolutely no way the romulans are being shafted especially since you are suggesting that only the refit weapons meaning just the beam and torp are to be reducing in effect by distance, and not the primary twin disruptors that it fires.
and yes, as you correctly gauged, we end up with 6-10 rhienns cos we are primarily trying to spam rhienns without looking at shrikes, leahvals etc
Stands to reason, as the rhienns are powerful from the getgo, and offer the romulan player an easier strat that does not entail the more complicated requirements of the other races such as the feds, klings or dominion.
Essentially build a bunch of rhienns, stand away and shoot. play with the mouse to move them a bit, and you'll think you've come away mastering the romulan early game.
however, that is as many of us see, due in part to the overemphasis on the distance+durability+extra systems+refitted torps and phasers of the rhienns.
All this in just 1 small class 1 ship.
We do get what u're saying, even if not all of us are posting. I'm sure the mods are reading your impressions as well, and they are open to what everyone here has to say. So keep that feedback coming, it'll be reviewed at some level or the other.
The d'deridex atm is a "nice to have but easily done without", hence has no special reason to be included in any fleet the way the generix or norexans are must haves.
the rhienns are extremely long ranged. there is absolutely no way the romulans are being shafted especially since you are suggesting that only the refit weapons meaning just the beam and torp are to be reducing in effect by distance, and not the primary twin disruptors that it fires.
and yes, as you correctly gauged, we end up with 6-10 rhienns cos we are primarily trying to spam rhienns without looking at shrikes, leahvals etc
Stands to reason, as the rhienns are powerful from the getgo, and offer the romulan player an easier strat that does not entail the more complicated requirements of the other races such as the feds, klings or dominion.
Essentially build a bunch of rhienns, stand away and shoot. play with the mouse to move them a bit, and you'll think you've come away mastering the romulan early game.
however, that is as many of us see, due in part to the overemphasis on the distance+durability+extra systems+refitted torps and phasers of the rhienns.
All this in just 1 small class 1 ship.
We do get what u're saying, even if not all of us are posting. I'm sure the mods are reading your impressions as well, and they are open to what everyone here has to say. So keep that feedback coming, it'll be reviewed at some level or the other.
posted on June 10th, 2009, 8:28 pm
Yep, some nice idea The D'deridex already gets something similar on its officer rank
by the way a Romulan redo is planed along with some gameplay changes with some other race redos, the D'deridex will get a brighter spot there
The D'deridex already gets something similar on its officer rankby the way a Romulan redo is planed along with some gameplay changes with some other race redos, the D'deridex will get a brighter spot there
posted on June 11th, 2009, 4:54 pm
Nice to hear. But I must say, that I am very content with the romulans at the moment.
Concerning D'deridex: It is reduced to an endgame ship, though it is the standard ships of the romulan fleet. Quite odd, that's true. But concerning gmeplay this ship is really valuable. The use of this ship is the final attack, when you'r fleet just rolls over the enemies base, destructive but indestructible. In combination with generix supporters this is a wave of juggernauts.
Concerning Rhiens: The assimilators are the greatest enemies of romulans in early game, especially when playing via interet, where command-delays of 2 seconds are no unusual event. Rhienns are poor, when microing is prohibited.
Concerning Serkas: Give the serkas green = no movement automomy, and this nasty behavoiur should stop.
Concerning D'deridex: It is reduced to an endgame ship, though it is the standard ships of the romulan fleet. Quite odd, that's true. But concerning gmeplay this ship is really valuable. The use of this ship is the final attack, when you'r fleet just rolls over the enemies base, destructive but indestructible. In combination with generix supporters this is a wave of juggernauts.
Concerning Rhiens: The assimilators are the greatest enemies of romulans in early game, especially when playing via interet, where command-delays of 2 seconds are no unusual event. Rhienns are poor, when microing is prohibited.
Concerning Serkas: Give the serkas green = no movement automomy, and this nasty behavoiur should stop.
posted on June 11th, 2009, 8:19 pm
put 2-3 leavals in the fleet, for instant repairs 
posted on June 11th, 2009, 8:21 pm
posted on June 11th, 2009, 9:01 pm
News to me
The Leahvals auto repair only affects itself
The Leahvals auto repair only affects itself
posted on June 11th, 2009, 9:23 pm
Yeah, Leahvals are selfish little jerks. And the D'deridex is a great endgame ship, becuase it's sporting beams and torpedoes instead of pulses, so they do a lot better against battleships and stations. Good to hear that they're getting a brighter spot of something, Optec! 
And I think we all agree with mimesot. For those of us who play as Romulan, we find it takes a bit more skill to manage rhienns than just a little mouse play, especially when against the Borg, where a player can simply do something predictable like spam assimilators all day without ever having to think of a different strategy.
And I think we all agree with mimesot. For those of us who play as Romulan, we find it takes a bit more skill to manage rhienns than just a little mouse play, especially when against the Borg, where a player can simply do something predictable like spam assimilators all day without ever having to think of a different strategy.
Sauron
Topic Starter
posted on June 11th, 2009, 9:41 pm
Last edited by Sauron on June 11th, 2009, 9:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's interesting you mentioned that Mal. I've been reviewing Borg gameplay, and I find that the Borg do need a bit of a redo.
the current connections limitations early game seem to promote reliance on assimilators, as in 30 ccs, i can either get 1 assim or 3 scubes or 1 adaptor and 2 scubes. All those other options are not as efficient as the assimilators leaving the assimilator as the best alternative, with the emphasis or skill of the Borg player being focused more on configuring the ship correctly..
Some may argue that Borg are more reliant on configurations of their ships and not the specific class - so I dont find the borg analogy to be relevant to the romulans as such.
But I will quote the impressions of other members too in my Borg impressions thread.
Im happy to see my feedback is useful and also agreed upon by many members
the current connections limitations early game seem to promote reliance on assimilators, as in 30 ccs, i can either get 1 assim or 3 scubes or 1 adaptor and 2 scubes. All those other options are not as efficient as the assimilators leaving the assimilator as the best alternative, with the emphasis or skill of the Borg player being focused more on configuring the ship correctly..
Some may argue that Borg are more reliant on configurations of their ships and not the specific class - so I dont find the borg analogy to be relevant to the romulans as such.
But I will quote the impressions of other members too in my Borg impressions thread.
Im happy to see my feedback is useful and also agreed upon by many members
posted on June 11th, 2009, 10:04 pm
it only affects itself? 
and what was that lil beam thing that repaired my d'deridex?
and what was that lil beam thing that repaired my d'deridex?
posted on June 11th, 2009, 10:28 pm
Was that little beam, a little green beam coming from... say... as Support Generix that had Shield Recharge reseasrched? 
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