Fedroll

posted on February 16th, 2011, 10:45 pm

If the special is activated, the Ambassador being 12 units slower than a Vor'cha probably wouldn't work in its favor...

posted on February 16th, 2011, 10:51 pm

lol i thought u was talking about the vorcha special polaron lol, my mistake.

i sometimes forget that the ambas special is a special since i practically always use it and it comes with the ship for free

ignoring both specials though, i dont think 3 vorchas cant kill an ambas if they were to meet alone for some reason (which is actually pretty unlikely, people dont split fleets like that often). all it has to do is run to a yard and its safe. they cant dps it before it can cycle back to repair.

getting to the yard is a matter of just running. they can cloak and uncloak all they like, they cant increase their speed to catch the ambas before it gets to a yard.

physics blocking with only 3 ships wont keep the ambas still for long. the imbecile helmsman will eventually adjust height in 3d space and continue to yard, and after if flies past the blocking vorcha, the vorchas have lost it forever as they wont be able to overtake.

the vorcha and ambas are kinda similar in role, they are strong at taking fire, but not perfect at dishing it out. the ambas is much more defensive, but the vorcha's beams need numbers to dps targets. and polaron takes a lot of their energy. i wouldnt chase an ambas without polaron or more than 3 vorchas. i would also leave the ambassador to last, especially if i had vorchas, because they take half damage from ambassadors.

there was a replay once where an ambas was horrendously out of position and getting attacked by multiple enemy ships. which just happened to have brels, which are fast enough to keep up, i dont remember if they got the kill, but i remember that the ambas got from the enemy base all the way accross a 2v2 map to near their own base, unsupported lol, against multiple chasing ships with faster speed.

posted on February 16th, 2011, 10:56 pm

the vorcha and ambas are kinda similar in role, they are strong at taking fire, but not perfect at dishing it out.

  How is 38 Offense with base damage to everything not good at dishing it out?

  How is 29 Offense at high speed, short range + torpedoes not dishing it out?

posted on February 16th, 2011, 11:02 pm

  How is 38 Offense with base damage to everything not good at dishing it out?

  How is 29 Offense at high speed, short range + torpedoes not dishing it out?

when did i say not good? u quoted me but u didnt bother to read it, i said not perfect. they are better at taking damage than dishing it out. also i dont know why u mentioned the ambas high speed, dishing out damage doesnt involve speed. u can be slow and have high dps or be fast and have high dps. high speed makes it great at taking fire without dying, which is a defensive trait.

compare vorchas with sangs, sangs are awesome at dishing out the pain, but comparably less good at taking it. kvorts and kbqs have a similar comparison. kbqs take fire better, kvorts dish it out but have fragile subsystems.

vorchas have beams, which do lower base damage than pulses and torps. vorcha beams on their own deal their damage spread out over time almost uniformly. you need to get a few numbers before you can start getting kills with your vorchas if your enemy micros their ships away. 3 vorchas cant dps the hull of a generix in the 2 second cloaking period.

posted on February 16th, 2011, 11:04 pm

Well i killed an ambassador while under fire from the other 2 warp ins with just 2 vorcha and it was running, its shields were a problem but vorcha is very effective and it dies very quickly once its hull was vulnarable it was like 3 shots or so and it was floating away and exploding (dont hold me to the 3 shots its not relavant) point is vorcha eat ambasador with or without special. O and yes warpins are weak they are supposed to be weak they are outdated ships and if they were so powerful it was be unbalanced.

Vorcha are awesome agaisnt all warpins.

posted on February 16th, 2011, 11:08 pm

Somehow, the Nebula Refit doesn't quite strike me as a weak fossil...

posted on February 16th, 2011, 11:13 pm

O and yes warpins are weak they are supposed to be weak they are outdated ships and if they were so powerful it was be unbalanced.

Vorcha are awesome agaisnt all warpins.

i disagree on both points. warpins have admirable stats. their main weakness is that they tend not to be terribly fast. so that if they have to start running, they arent gonna last long. but thats more about how you use them. used defensively warpins are very strong.

Somehow, the Nebula Refit doesn't quite strike me as a weak fossil...

its not, its a flying ROCKET LAWNCHAIR. its the fleetops version of a giant awesome gun.

posted on February 16th, 2011, 11:19 pm

i said not perfect. they are better at taking damage than dishing it out.

Splitting hairs, Officer Myles .

  Beams may do just base, but they can never do less than base.  Pulses and Torps CAN depending on size (which of course you know).  Nothing wrong with base.

Sangs are 25 or 27 Offense depending on avatar.  How is 25 or 27 somehow better than 38?  You made the comparison of Vor'cha not being good at dishing it out in a very haphazard way.


  Boggz thinks they're GREAT at dishing out damage. 

posted on February 17th, 2011, 6:56 am

Klingon vs Fed is infact a quite balanced situation...with Rom its imo not.
You lack torps to effectively kill a good warpin. And once Monsoons get mixed in with their special even Leavhals start to fall...currently I only consider a Leavhal or maybe DRhienn spam effective vs the Fedroll combo.
The advantage in early game I had since I took out every Exp from the begining on. He had only 1 pair all the time. But he saved Warpins while attacking with Monsoons and Ambasadors. I could not produce as many ships as required and specifically none with Torps to take out bigger ships. I had good scouting but my Generix where slow and could not prevent Exp raiding all the time.

The Rom definately need some early available Torps imo.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 7:52 am

While I don't want to derail this thread too much farther,  I just want to point out to you, Drrr that Leahvals with Repair + Reeling will handle the Feds VERY well until Proxy Torp can snipe you.  Once (or slightly before) that happens you can easily begin mixing Generix Spectres into your fleet and you'll do enormously well.  Your Spectres crush Monsoons and are really only countered by Intrepids, which in turn get slaughtered by Leahvals.  Not a bad combo and VERY difficult for even Feds to recover from even just a few bad engagements.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 8:32 am

I think, the situation would be solved, if the rommies get a good harassement unit. The feds can pull out good ships from the start, while the rommies must tech up in order to get only an "answer", and by this point, you already face the starfleet command being build and phaser-platforms +5 or 6 small ships.

If the rommies could get out something bitchy like the klingons do with its K'Vort, it could be balanced. But this would kill off the different approaches the races have and the rommies would be more like the klingons, which I dont like.

Rommies dont do masses, they do quality and superiority, similar to the feds, but the feds have quality + mass. (fedroll)

So... maybe an ability, that similar to the borg ICube[sup]tm[/sup] can negate the effects of passives or specials?

posted on February 17th, 2011, 9:53 am

Splitting hairs, Officer Myles .

its not splitting hairs at all, most klingon ships are good at dishing out damage, vorchas are better at taking it than dishing it out though. there is a huge difference between not perfect and not good. they are not perfect when you compare them to other klingon ships (which is the only serious comparison you can do).

Sangs are 25 or 27 Offense depending on avatar.  How is 25 or 27 somehow better than 38?  You made the comparison of Vor'cha not being good at dishing it out in a very haphazard way.
  Boggz thinks they're GREAT at dishing out damage. 

1 sang vs 1 vorcha is an extremely flawed and almost pointless comparison, the vorcha requires a higher tech level, needing armoury, and naturally will be better in most ways.

sangs are an offensive ship, they are very good at dishing it out for their price (assuming you are using them correctly, ie against big ships) and not so good at taking it, they die in a way the vorcha doesnt. the vorcha on the other hand doesnt have that initial kick if u just spam them. either u mix vorchas with field yard ships and the field yard ships give the punch and hopefully dont get targeted too much or you spam vorchas and have to wait for a few more ships before you can get kills. vorchas are great in their defensive traits in that they can survive long enough for you to get them in numbers, where their beam weapons will start getting kills.

each race has a trait which is balanced for them. feds have awesome defences, dominion are the macro race, roms the micro race, klinks the offensive race. klinks hit hard in general, compare that with the vorcha which takes fire better. several race has a ship(s) that goes against its race style. romulans have the generix (and refits) which need(s) little micro. feds are strong in that they hit hard too. but the defiant is their offensive ship. the kbq is similar to the vorcha, both are ok armed, but both are better when taking fire from the enemy and not dying. they make great core fleet ships because of that. because the enemy fires on them, but they dont get a kill.

romulans already harass very well with most of their ships nearly all of them cloak in 2 seconds.

rhienns: long range, avoid unwanted turret attention, have pulses which murder kli/rom/fed miners.

shrikes: fast and pulse armed and have medium range

leahvals: fast, can ignore a bit of turret fire by using auto repair to negate it. has the awesome meta D. even late game a trio of leahvals can run between expansions meta Ding miners getting loads of kills. when they rank up they get the frigate guns.

frigates: has the particle weapons which do increased damage to miners. can cloak under quite a bit of fire as gens are naturally quite tough.

serkas: great at demolishing the mining stations and yards, their splash damage will usually kill a miner or two that are at an exp.

posted on February 17th, 2011, 11:43 am

Again, splitting hairs.

  Why am I bothering .... oh right, it's almost 4am and I have nothing to do

posted on February 17th, 2011, 1:33 pm

Again, splitting hairs.

Repeating something incorrect wont make it correct. :p

posted on March 8th, 2011, 11:53 pm

Odd note what about an early frigate refit faster than the spectre and better at wiping out monsoons? However frigates don't match up as well with intrepids and some of the warp ins.