Combat Tractor Beam OP vs Borg?

posted on September 7th, 2010, 7:32 pm

lol mal dont come online much does he? otherwise i would play him a lot.

Mal doesn't have consistent internet access right now... for a few more days anway 

[Anonymous]

posted on September 7th, 2010, 9:04 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on September 8th, 2010, 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

dont just repeat yourself with bits underlined, i did read your points, and dismissed them 

Then arguing with you is pointless, and you're wasting my time and yours.   Why should I argue in circles with you if you're simply going to dismiss everything I say?  That's not very kind.

I'll be coming back to online play in a couple of days, and have been eagerly waiting to do so.

I'd certainly love to play some more games with you, Myles.  It'll be fun.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 9:25 pm

The very fact that I can stop a cube with a little ship like that and fly circles around it just disturbs me. I find it way to OP when against Borg as is.

A teenee tiny Runabout shuttle towed Dukat's Galor through the wormhole in DS9. Scaling the runabout to the size of the Charg, I think it would be believable that a Charg could at the very least hold a cube in place. It's not like it's towing the Cube after all.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 9:28 pm

The Runabout was towing a disabled Galor, a Charg would be towing a fully-functional Cube. A Cube should have far more than enough power to break free with ease.

posted on September 7th, 2010, 10:55 pm

Or the Cube should be able to adapt to the tractor and simply block it with their adaptive shielding.

Actually, thinking about it, would it be possible to make sustained-attack weapons cost more energy against the Borg?  It would allow a form of adaptation that isn't really OP, as it wouldn't render them immune.  It would just ensure that you can't do things like sit for a long time at max combat-tractor range where they can't slicer you.  That tractor is gonna fail soon, so make the time count.

posted on September 8th, 2010, 6:25 am

A cube should be able to rape 3 or more Changs.  What the hell do you think this cube is doing while it being held?  The Borg onboard all sat having a tea party?

A cube is a cube is a cube is a beast of a ship.  And if say that other ships will be hitting the cube while it is being held... well, where the hell is the rest of the Borg fleet?  If you have only a cube while the enemy has a decent fleet then you have already lost.

I agree with an earlier poster. The only way to settle this is for a 1 on 1 take place between two competent players, one Borg, one Klingon, and see what happens.  Maybe make it a best of 3 or something.  Drag a commentator in and get a replay made.

posted on September 8th, 2010, 11:02 am

Then arguing with you is pointless, and you're wasting my time and yours.   Why should I argue in circles with you if you're simply going to dismiss everything I say?  That's not very kind.

i wasnt dismissing everything u say. i was dismissing those things u say that i believe are incorrect

i'm not arguing with u because i dont like you or am being unkind to you.

i am just arguing cos i'm a tellarite i like arguing. its definitely not personal, i happen to have a great deal of respect for u.

I agree with an earlier poster. The only way to settle this is for a 1 on 1 take place between two competent players, one Borg, one Klingon, and see what happens.  Maybe make it a best of 3 or something.  Drag a commentator in and get a replay made.

1 game isnt gonna decide on balance, it takes many games and many uses of a strategy to see if it is unbalanced.

with the broken cascade feedback we instantly knew it was broke, it just did too much damage.

but with kvort spam a few patches back, i'm sure it was tested by many many people before a consensus was reached.

posted on September 8th, 2010, 5:58 pm

I'm not mad, and I don't take it personally.   I was a little annoyed at first, because it does kind of end the discussion rather quickly.  On the plus side, if my arguments aren't refuted or at least responded to, I guess they still stand.

Besides, it's kind of nice having someone else say:

1 game isnt gonna decide on balance, it takes many games and many uses of a strategy to see if it is unbalanced.

so that I don't have to.  So it's all good.

I would be ok with the tractor beam not working on say, the cube.  And we can definitely test it out some more, but I've never had an issue with the tractor beam for 2 years now.  It's a rare thing for people to make, and the times Boggz (the only person I ever see using it consistantly) has used it on my own spheres, I was able to get away.  Although it WAS touch and go there for a minute.   As I recall, he was pretty pissed one time as I was able to retreat into a nebula before he killed it.

posted on September 8th, 2010, 6:05 pm

in a replay today it was used against boggz. by the time funny had researched it the game was won though.

i think one of the reasons we dont see it much is that its for taqqy only. and when facing borg, most klink players will just go automatically for marty's susa.

i mena susa are great and all, but i love the ability to say to a sphere no you cant run away u must die. i just wish it would be made so that i have to make more charghs to do it. or do it for less time.

plus the veq is nice if u can kite with it. its micro intensive, but annoys the hell out of the enemy.

posted on September 8th, 2010, 8:05 pm

If you want to see just how freakish the combat tractor can get play against the AI.  They'll hit you with it, and move to absolute maximum range that it will maintain at.  Not a problem for the Diamond, which can pelt the thing at any range it pleases.  But the medium and short range ships get an unpleasant situation.

Cube is medium range, and thus, can end up very unhappy.  I've actually had times where all I could do was toss nanites and try to fire off Boarding in an attempt to get free.  But that is the AI, who was fielding enough of those things to lock my entire fleet.

posted on September 8th, 2010, 8:18 pm

Except that the Tractor Beam is medium range 

posted on September 8th, 2010, 8:49 pm

Somehow, that doesn't always seem to matter.  Unless the AI is special about it, sometimes it'll affix the beam, and then move to just outside medium range, maintaining the beam.

posted on September 9th, 2010, 12:16 am

Lets see how much of the enemy's fleet you can destroy before you actually target the chargh! 

[Boggz]

posted on September 9th, 2010, 12:37 am

Last edited by Boggz on September 9th, 2010, 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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All of you ....


   

  What I COULD do ....[/align]

  Love,

     Buggz


EDIT:

i mena susa are great and all, but i love the ability to say to a sphere no you cant run away u must die. i just wish it would be made so that i have to make more charghs to do it. or do it for less time.

  Why?  It's expensive for Klingons to tech up, get the armory, then build the ship.  Once built, the ship is frail (20 Defense) and forward firing-only.  Nerf more? 

plus the veq is nice if u can kite with it. its micro intensive, but annoys the hell out of the enemy.

  Yeah Veq's are nice, but their slowness and turn rate mean that a Sphere can out-micro them if used properly. 

  In short:  There is nothing wrong with the Tractor Beam.  It's a SINGLE ABILITY that counters the "Sphere Dance", and Klingons have so may short range vessels that they really need it.
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posted on September 9th, 2010, 2:41 am

Maybe change the rate at which the energy is drained depending on the size of the chassis, so holding big ships like a cube for instance will drain the special energy alot quicker.