A little Rebalance for some fractions

posted on September 18th, 2009, 5:30 pm

Well, lets start with the federation:

The sovereign is in my eyes completly useless as long it did'nt reached the two gold bars. A damage reduction from every ship that doesnt reached the two gold bars it nice, but only a little bonus. This ship is going down too fast I think. I could live with it if that ship got another special ability. The engine overload is not very powerful I think and it dont fits the purpose of this ship.
I'd rather like to see something like point-blank defense systems against torpedoes. This would make this ship survive longer against the borg but it is'nt very useful against ships that fire their torpedos very often like klingon ships. So good against borg, not so good against klingons and romulans and dominion.

Also the veteran ability is completly useless. Why should I need a faster regeneration of my shields and a little higher durability of my systems? This is a feature I dont need in direct battle. Something like "sixth generation shields" would fit that ship much better. I also think at the veteran rang, this ship should get the passive ability to hit small and medium vessels better, like the Excelsior MK II does. Than the 9 slots are worth it.

Mixed-Tech Monsoon from the klingons:
I never build it. Exchange this ship with another one, for example the sabré-class. Give it a "all stats increased by one" and a "phaser replaced by pulse phaser that deals increased damage to destroyer and cruisers, but less damage against battleships" like we have with the quantum pulse. On veteran this ship will gain a heavy dual quantum pulse phaser that will aim against enemy weapon systems. A part of its energy will bypass the shields and will deal direct damage to the enemy weapon system, but WITHOUT damaging the enemy hull - this would be overpowered.

Steamrunner-class:
Only effective against stations and for this purpose I'd rather use the Excelsior MK II. The steamrunner should be much more effective against borg-ships I think. So lets make it so: Let the tricobald-torpedo deal normal damage to stations BUT let it deal trible damage against ... uhm, what size is an assimilator and higher? Battleship? Then make it to... battleships. You should fear this ship. Something punchy.

Everything else seems to be fine.

Klingons:
They have many powerful ships but... not a single real good one. I'd expect the Negh'Var to be one of those, but it got too less defense values and wont be useful against ships with long range weapons. They simply fly out of range and bombard it there until it is meat.
So, When the Negh'Var would level up:
The first golden bar --> medium range
Second golden bar: Long range

Also give this ship a little more defensive value. In my eyes you might increase the costs for this ship, I have no problem with it because the Klingons need at least one ship that is able to withstand a battle a little bit longer and can deal a great punch.

Anything else to the klingons: I did'nt played them very often, at leat 1 time... so... dont know. I dont like to play them.

Romulans: They got no real defense system. I laugh every time I see it, even with "5 points increased stats". They cant do a thing and they are useless. Suggestion: You can build up to three cloaking stations that will automaticly cloak all your stations around a certain perimeter. You dont need special energy for it. With this, you can completly cloak your base, if you manage it to build it within this radius. This would a little outbalance the weak defense of the romulans. Sure, you can counter it with a tachyon impulse so that you may be able to attack the base with special sensor ships. Destroy those sensor ships, and you are save. If the enemy destroys your cloaking stations, you are in bad luck.

Dominion:
Well, this is good balanced. I only think about better starbases for them. And maybe the troop transport should get a better hull-armor.

Borg:
They are in my eyes the strongest fraction in the game, but theirs defense stations dont reflect that. They should regenerate faster.

posted on September 18th, 2009, 5:48 pm

Well, lets start with the federation:

The sovereign is in my eyes completly useless as long it did'nt reached the two gold bars. A damage reduction from every ship that doesnt reached the two gold bars it nice, but only a little bonus. This ship is going down too fast I think. I could live with it if that ship got another special ability. The engine overload is not very powerful I think and it dont fits the purpose of this ship.
I'd rather like to see something like point-blank defense systems against torpedoes. This would make this ship survive longer against the borg but it is'nt very useful against ships that fire their torpedos very often like klingon ships. So good against borg, not so good against klingons and romulans and dominion.

Personally I'd disagree. This should not be boosted because of the Federation having plenty of other heavy ships to back it up. Plus also the Federation could use a little bogging down.

Klingons:
They have many powerful ships but... not a single real good one. I'd expect the Negh'Var to be one of those, but it got too less defense values and wont be useful against ships with long range weapons. They simply fly out of range and bombard it there until it is meat.
So, When the Negh'Var would level up:
The first golden bar --> medium range
Second golden bar: Long range

Also give this ship a little more defensive value. In my eyes you might increase the costs for this ship, I have no problem with it because the Klingons need at least one ship that is able to withstand a battle a little bit longer and can deal a great punch.

I agree, the Klingons appear to be the weakest faction of all. sure they get ahead in early game but in late geame they are wiped out. But yes, the Klingons need a real good ship (hence I got something planned for them  ).

Romulans: They got no real defense system. I laugh every time I see it, even with "5 points increased stats". They cant do a thing and they are useless. Suggestion: You can build up to three cloaking stations that will automaticly cloak all your stations around a certain perimeter. You dont need special energy for it. With this, you can completly cloak your base, if you manage it to build it within this radius. This would a little outbalance the weak defense of the romulans. Sure, you can counter it with a tachyon impulse so that you may be able to attack the base with special sensor ships. Destroy those sensor ships, and you are save. If the enemy destroys your cloaking stations, you are in bad luck.

Yep, without an arguement the Romulans are a very weak faction, creamed to easily. If it wasn't for the Tavara class the Romulan race would be only as good in military strength as the Sona alone. They are far to dependent on their crappy SPW.

Dominion:
Well, this is good balanced. I only think about better starbases for them. And maybe the troop transport should get a better hull-armor.

Borg:
They are in my eyes the strongest fraction in the game, but theirs defense stations dont reflect that. They should regenerate faster.

With the Dominion, i got a couple of words: MORE SPEED! Dominion ships are supposed to be able to out maneuver almost any Federation ship.

With the Borg, Weak early game tech! They are all about late game because they spam cruisers and cubes!

posted on September 18th, 2009, 5:51 pm

With the Dominion, i got a couple of words: MORE SPEED! Dominion ships are supposed to be able to out maneuver almost any Federation ship.

Oh? When did this come to be?

posted on September 18th, 2009, 5:55 pm

Oh? When did this come to be?

Dah, CANON! ITS CANON! Don't go insulting me!

posted on September 18th, 2009, 5:58 pm

the developers need to  UN-neuter  my k'vort.   it used to be awesome,  get 16 of them on a strike and watch out.  now, there good for cannon fodder.

give the non borg races back there repair ships

assimilated / captured ships SHOULD loose there vet status.  experience comes from the crews familarity with the ship, new crew = no experience

SOMEONE brought up (once upon a time)  a borg slow assimilation weapon.  it would be fired / sent to an emeny station,  like the rom spy.  slowly assimilate the crew, eventually making it a borg ship.
THAT has possibilities  :woot:  though i dont know how you would "cure" a station.  repair ships maybe?  special anti borg assimilater weapon?  huge nadian radation burst?  Phlox can figure that out again  ^-^

make the SFC take longer to build.  i'm tired of playin as roms, get two ships out of my yard, and i got 3 warp-ins taking out my mining. while i have sabers knocking on my front door.  too many ships too soon.

make the compuer AI subject to the same rules as real people,  (borg building countless ships out of ome node,  kingons building a fully expanded battle yard at once, have hella more resources from the start than you)

posted on September 18th, 2009, 5:59 pm

Dah, CANON! ITS CANON! Don't go insulting me!

Dreadnought, Battleships and things on their level rarely do anything but sit still and fire, while Bugships can barely outmaneuver DS9... Dominion ships are all power, little else.

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:01 pm

Oh? When did this come to be?

umm, when they allied themselves with the breen and became able to research IMPROVED BREEN ENGIENS, for a 5 and then 10?% boost in speed,  should be abel to outrun anyone except klingon (maybe borg)

i think the dominion got ripped off.  got a bunch of lemon breen engines,  i dont think even Edd China could fix them 

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:06 pm

Well... I think I am in disagreement with every one of your points to be honest  :sweatdrop:

Hasn't the Sovereign discussion been done to death already? It is a fine battleship, and its special ability if anything is OVERPOWERED (ironically, like most things Federation in FO)

The Veteran ability is incredibly powerful. Taking so much less damage from non officer rank vessels is amazing.... I don't really understand what you are trying to get at.

The Klingon Mixed-Tech Monsoon gets 50% reduced energy costs for firing the Torpedo... meaning you can fire two of them in quick succession to destroy an enemy vessel much more quickly. Essentially having a fleet of mixed tech Monsoon doubles their firepower compared to a normal Monsoon... why would you want to change that? I do on the other hand like the idea of some weapons that target specific subsystems and deal damage to them.,.. but that would be incredibly overpowered, especially against the Borg.

The Steamrunner is very effective against enemy vessels, especially cruisers and battleships. With its triloader it takes them out in no time... and when a Veteran it obliterates them with only 1-3 shots. Again you seem hung up on attacking the Borg... why are you trying to make the Feds into a "good against the Borg" faction...?

The Klingons have several very powerful individual vessels. The Sang' and LuSpet for instance can be easily spammed without reinforcement. The rather cheap Negh'var will be getting a speed boost in the next patch, as concurrent with its range. The Negh'var either has 44 or 36 defense... that is fitting with the rest of the defensive values and seems fine to me for the amount of firepower that ship can pump out in close order.

Romulans are perhaps the second or third strongest faction at the moment (Feds and Dominion are most powerful atm). Your cloaking stations' idea seems interesting... but the Cloaking Generator accomplishes that and much more I think.

As for Baleful: why the heck should every faction get a repair ship?

Likewise, the SFC is just fine now. Think of it as free kills. You should have at least 4 Rhienns out by that time (or 5 Shrikes), all refitted... or 2-3 Griffins out with Sensor Jammer... more than enough to take out the 1-2 Sabers you will face and the Warp In.

We've already talked about the Klingon changes, so I'm not sure why you are bringing it up here when I told you the Klingons are getting completely changed. Complaining about it again won't make the outcome any different, because changes have already been made  :blink:

The last part of your demand is irrelevant. As soon as it can be done it WILL be done... but at the moment it is impossible, understand? You would like to play with an AI that can be beaten every time with 1-2 Sabers/Destroyers? The AI has to cheat, otherwise it would be like playing Chess with yourself...  :rolleyes:

Gamer: the Romulans are FAR FAR from the weakest faction... I mean seriously? They have the best hit and run units in the game, combined with a station that can insta kill any ship at all... just to name 2 things that make them powerful

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:13 pm

umm, when they allied themselves with the breen and became able to research IMPROVED BREEN ENGIENS, for a 5 and then 10?% boost in speed,  should be abel to outrun anyone except klingon (maybe borg)

i think the dominion got ripped off.  got a bunch of lemon breen engines,  i dont think even Edd China could fix them 

10% and 20% of a decent initial speed does not necesarily mean that the Dominion vessels will be so much faster than everything. Sure, a Bug ship will become the fastest destroyer in the game (well, until the B'rel is upgraded with better engines), but the other vessels will not instantly become faster than everything else

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:22 pm

so, your saying the domion is the slowest race, and the engine impovments bring them back to parr with everyone else?

again, just throwing some ideas out there, pick and choose what you like form it 

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:26 pm

and, WHY WOULDN'T every faction have a repair ship,  evey faction has miners.  every faction has constuctors.  your telling me in the far of star trek future, the federation is the ONLY race that has engine trouble?

in A2 eveyone had a repair ship,  except 8472 and the borg.  while eveyone HAD one, they preformed differently.  some like the feds, was more effecient than the klingon ones.  i recall it took 3 klingon repair ships to do what one federation one could.

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:28 pm

Every Repair ship was identical in every way, aside from the Klingon one being armed.

Ships designed to repair others is not something the Klingons or Dominion would use. Only the Federation (and maybe the Romulans).

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:33 pm

Agree Tyler. Bringing homogenization to all the factions is ridiculous. I can't really believe you compared it to Armada II even. Every faction WAS the same in that game... and that's why we are all here playing FO, not Vanilla AII.

I did not say the Dominion was the slowest faction, the engine upgrades do give a boost that does make the ships faster. That isn't the same thing as saying that all ships are faster than all ships of another faction. The Breen Cruiser is as fast as a normal destroyer after upgrades, but the V-13 is obviously not that fast. Look at the odfs or guide if you want to get a comparison for speeds across the factions. The Dominion certainly isn't the slowest (I think it is faster in general than all but the Klingons).

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:36 pm

The Veteran ability is incredibly powerful. Taking so much less damage from non officer rank vessels is amazing.... I don't really understand what you are trying to get at.

That is NOT the veteran ability, it is the officer ability. The veteran ability is that it repairs itself faster and got a little more system armor so it wont break down so fast against special weapons. But that is in my eyes not a special ability, this is only a "helping hand" but no special ability. When you would tell that it will get sixth gen. shields or superior ECM, I would say "o.k.", but the veteran ability is useless.

And I dont think the feds are overpowered. Because of the warp in? You can counter them easily.

The Klingon Mixed-Tech Monsoon gets 50% reduced energy costs for firing the Torpedo...

... yeah, and now copare it with the other monsoon you get from the borg. We have two of them, and I only want to have one. And I'd rather take the borg one because it combines many defense abilities together is a fitting picture.

[sarcasm]And... really... you can fire two times instead of one time... wow. I mean... awesome. [/sarcasm]

The Steamrunner is very effective against enemy vessels, especially cruisers and battleships. With its triloader it takes them out in no time...

And the main damage is done against stations. Change it to cruisers/battleships and I take this one.

The rather cheap Negh'var will be getting a speed boost in the next patch, as concurrent with its range. The Negh'var either has 44 or 36 defense... that is fitting with the rest of the defensive values and seems fine to me for the amount of firepower that ship can pump out in close order.

I agree. So when it is getting faster it may be outbalanced. So this ship gets to something like the defiant only for klingons?

Romulans are perhaps the second or third strongest faction at the moment

Yes, after the dominion and the federation and the borg there comes the... romulans. One step before being last. Very powerful indeed. I wish for more effective defense turrets, not more. Compare them with the klingons or the federation ones... Dont do it with the dominion, they outbalance it with the perimeter. And the cloak is not effective against players. Stay there, wait 30 seconds, the stations are out of energy and you wait with your artillery ships in front of the door. What a... waste.

posted on September 18th, 2009, 6:37 pm

WOW,  Epiphany

you know how the borg can research that hull cutting thing, and all the ships in the designated range get that weapon,  what if, you could research a repair beam ability at a science station, and say every ship out of the big yard got it.  ships would use special ability energy to use it

HA

and tyler, you think the klingons and dominion spend pounds and pounds of latinum to build a ship, and something goes wrong on it, they just blow it up?  you think they wouldnt try to fix it?

hey we got a brand new battleship, opp, wait,  there is a light out in the turbolift,  better junk it. time to build another from scratch, no need to fix this brand new one, with the slight defect