stock A2 revamp (input please)

[A2_Tiger]

posted on June 25th, 2011, 6:22 pm

Last edited by A2_Tiger on June 26th, 2011, 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

starting a thread asking the community what they think is unbalanced or just needs a revamp/ nerf of the vanilla version of A2.

i will start adding stuff to these pages over the next few days, but just incase anyone else is new here like myself (as im sure you will get more stock A2 players joining when word gets out) this thread is only what if, it is currently not being looked at as a possible patch.

[A2_Tiger]

posted on June 25th, 2011, 6:23 pm

Last edited by A2_Tiger on July 10th, 2011, 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

Cloak detection in armada 2 is "all too easy". This should be reworked.

...............................

Fix the colony exploit witch allows non Borg races to use 1 colony ship continuously throughout the game.

................................



early federation;

defiant class, these ships with there mine technology are very powerful although not unbeatable, I suggest either a reduction of special (mine) damage (maybe half) or a very small amount of metal to produce this class such as 5-10 metal. This small nerf would not kill the defiants style of play.

Other classes need to be reworked in order to give the federation an alternative play style.

Feds start with 500 latenum but do not require it for any builds or technology, it is only viable to give to your allies at the start of a game, (maybe rework this).

Federation in a nut shell; very powerfull in early game and there is only 4 viable ships to use, scout, defiant, galaxy, sov's.

..............................................................


klingons in armada 2 i would say is the more easy to play race. much like every other race there is only a few viable options when it comes to ships, scout, BOP's, neg vah, keh rals.

klingon have two basic strategys, two yard BOP rush, fast adv yard to pump out rals.

more viable ships are needed or just rework the ships that no one uses.

...................................................................

posted on June 25th, 2011, 6:23 pm

reserved,

posted on June 25th, 2011, 6:36 pm

There are a few dozen threads out there on der interwebz on this subject, but I can just pop up a few complaints. This list is by no means exhaustive

Warp - easy to avoid any torpedo type weapons (such as special weapons), and blow stuff to smithereens and leave.

Cloak is pretty much useless (and in turn, makes the Romulans ... "fun to play in A2").

Superweapons - most are totally useless, with one of the worst offenders being the Cardassian one. Just pump a single shot into it, and it self destructs on the target ^^

Map height - when combined with warp, it renders any and all defenses useless, and also makes it extremely easy to destroy mining.

Battleship spam - in general, just very easy to get to and most ships are rendered impotent as a result.

Diamond's Ultritium Burst - probably the single most unbalanced special in the game.

Gemini Effect - created ships deal damage ^^

Shield Disruptor (if I recall correctly)... since removing large amounts of HP from many ships isn't a problem.

Mothership rushing woot!

posted on June 25th, 2011, 6:37 pm

Is this in competition to my rebalance project?

posted on June 25th, 2011, 7:12 pm

Is this in competition to my rebalance project?

np not at all, but it did get me thinking and wondering what ppl thought as every one has there own views, i for one are happy that someone like yourself is trying to acheive something.

posted on June 25th, 2011, 7:42 pm

id like there to be better quality models

posted on June 25th, 2011, 7:45 pm

id like there to be better quality models

At least make low-resolution models that have about the same poly count as the original A2 models.

posted on June 26th, 2011, 4:27 pm

its been a while but if i remember correctly was there not a project perfection mod that enhanced all the graphics for armada 2? im sure i remember something like this.

posted on June 26th, 2011, 4:40 pm

The Upgrade Project, yes

posted on September 23rd, 2011, 12:37 am

I think the main problem with stock is that the 1.2 patch hates installing on some peoples computers, quite gay.

posted on September 23rd, 2011, 2:41 am

starting a thread asking the community what they think is unbalanced or just needs a revamp/ nerf of the vanilla version of A2.

i will start adding stuff to these pages over the next few days, but just incase anyone else is new here like myself (as im sure you will get more stock A2 players joining when word gets out) this thread is only what if, it is currently not being looked at as a possible patch.

It is nice to see someone else that is using Vanilla Ultimate 2.0!

I agree with you about the unbalanced issues and that it does need a revamp. It would be nice to eventually see a patch, but I just don't want it to destroy my mod just to install it even though I have it back-uped almost weekly.

Cloak detection in armada 2 is "all too easy". This should be reworked.

...............................

Fix the colony exploit witch allows non Borg races to use 1 colony ship continuously throughout the game.

................................
early federation;

defiant class, these ships with there mine technology are very powerful although not unbeatable, I suggest either a reduction of special (mine) damage (maybe half) or a very small amount of metal to produce this class such as 5-10 metal. This small nerf would not kill the defiants style of play.

Other classes need to be reworked in order to give the federation an alternative play style.

Feds start with 500 latenum but do not require it for any builds or technology, it is only viable to give to your allies at the start of a game, (maybe rework this).

Federation in a nut shell; very powerfull in early game and there is only 4 viable ships to use, scout, defiant, galaxy, sov's.

..............................................................

klingons in armada 2 i would say is the more easy to play race. much like every other race there is only a few viable options when it comes to ships, scout, BOP's, neg vah, keh rals.

klingon have two basic strategys, two yard BOP rush, fast adv yard to pump out rals.

more viable ships are needed or just rework the ships that no one uses.

..................................................................

You have all good points there, I have nothing really to add, except I have made the Borg extreamly strong in my Armada II install, there are many more ships to choose from for the Federation, Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians are now combined with the Dominion-Breen-Son'a (Dominion Alliance). Then there is the the Vulcans, Ferengi, Gorn-Tholian Alliance, Terran Empire Starfleet, Klingon-Cardassian Alliance. Then of course Species 8472 hasn't been touched really much and I still consider them the weakest race in the entire game.

There are a few dozen threads out there on der interwebz on this subject, but I can just pop up a few complaints. This list is by no means exhaustive

Warp - easy to avoid any torpedo type weapons (such as special weapons), and blow stuff to smithereens and leave.

Cloak is pretty much useless (and in turn, makes the Romulans ... "fun to play in A2").

Superweapons - most are totally useless, with one of the worst offenders being the Cardassian one. Just pump a single shot into it, and it self destructs on the target ^^

Map height - when combined with warp, it renders any and all defenses useless, and also makes it extremely easy to destroy mining.

Battleship spam - in general, just very easy to get to and most ships are rendered impotent as a result.

Diamond's Ultritium Burst - probably the single most unbalanced special in the game.

Gemini Effect - created ships deal damage ^^

Shield Disruptor (if I recall correctly)... since removing large amounts of HP from many ships isn't a problem.

Mothership rushing woot!

You raise alot of good issues there, I bet I could eventually think of some to add, but I think you have nailed the ones that Have come to mind at times.

The Upgrade Project, yes

If I remember correctly, Vanilla Ultimate 2.0 was the Armada II Upgrade Project but the name was changed to Vanilla Ultimate 2.0 at the time of its release.
By any chance, is this what you are talking about? This is the mod that I mean when I say Vanilla Ultimate and also say that it is the basis to my mod's starting point.
Armada II Upgrade Project, Vanilla Ultimate V 2.0.0 Mod Download, Star Trek: Armada 2 Mods

In closing, I would like to add, thank you A2_Tiger for posting this. I like to hear more of your ideas and what you think should be done to revamp the game.

posted on September 23rd, 2011, 5:03 am

Cloak detection in armada 2 is "all too easy". This should be reworked.

I assume you mean the 'research cloak detect and your scout and sensor platforms line of sight see's all cloaked ships' issue ?

I'll agree that, if balanced properly, it should be changed so that once you research the tech, you have to upgrade the sensor platforms and scouts to detect cloaked ships, as that would make cloaking less of a joke as it was in stock, but for cloaking races either make the detect station/scout upgrade cost more or be more limited in some way. They've spent the time perfecting the cloak, not in detecting it.

Fix the colony exploit witch allows non Borg races to use 1 colony ship continuously throughout the game.

Agreed, this is a out and out bug and should either be fixed, or made a feature for non-borg races.

early federation;

defiant class, these ships with there mine technology are very powerful although not unbeatable, I suggest either a reduction of special (mine) damage (maybe half) or a very small amount of metal to produce this class such as 5-10 metal. This small nerf would not kill the defiants style of play.

Agreed, add a reasonable cost for mine useage and becomes less of a spam tactic. The key issue being that the mine is PERSISTENT, you launch it and it sits there with no time limit, unlike other special weapons.

And while a max lifespan COULD be added to the mine, that would sort of defeat the purpose of a mine field.

Other classes need to be reworked in order to give the federation an alternative play style.

This would somewhat defeat the purpose of a stock revamp as it'd become less stock, and more mod.

Do the revamp, then do the rework later as a mod based on the revamp.

Feds start with 500 latenum but do not require it for any builds or technology, it is only viable to give to your allies at the start of a game, (maybe rework this).

While not at a 1-1 ratio, turning that into greater starting metal/dil may be an idea.

Federation in a nut shell; very powerfull in early game and there is only 4 viable ships to use, scout, defiant, galaxy, sov's.

Well the problem was each ship was a slight step up in stats, rather than having better balanced advantages and disadvantages, but this was the case for ALL races. And once again, would be better adressed with a mod once the revamp is completed.

klingons in armada 2 i would say is the more easy to play race. much like every other race there is only a few viable options when it comes to ships, scout, BOP's, neg vah, keh rals.

klingon have two basic strategys, two yard BOP rush, fast adv yard to pump out rals.

more viable ships are needed or just rework the ships that no one uses.

Prehaps graphical changes for their textures and weapons, but once again, better to do a revamp THEN upgrade via a later mod.

posted on September 23rd, 2011, 5:55 am

a small scale counter system would be awesome

posted on September 23rd, 2011, 6:15 am

Well I personally dislike the way counters are done in fleet ops. Yeah its fun for a RTS, but it ruins the trek feel.

I'd rather have it simply come down to some ships being more cost effective for some situations or play styles, with the 'counters' being simple stats, IE: weapon types have chance to hit rates which get modified based on the ship they're mounted on and the target, so a torpedo on a large ship is less likely to hit a small target, but on another small ship will get less of a penalty.

So rather than building the ships around a counter system, build them for a basic job and balance from there as needed to keep gameplay reasonable.


The way fleet ops handles stuff is just strange when looked at from a trek prespective, for example ablatave armor means a ships preference depends on the maximum range of the targeting vessel, among other minor gripes.