How many ships a single yard can produce?

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posted on August 6th, 2017, 10:01 am
I know that the maximum number of displayable buildbutons is 31. But I'm interested in how many buildItems the ODF can hold so the AI can build them.
I want to crowd as many AI-buildable (i.e.: hidden buttons) ships into each yard as possible to give an advantage to the AI by taking the chance of a precision raid from the player.
posted on August 6th, 2017, 4:01 pm
Producers in FO can handle 57 builditems

http://guide.fleetops.net/guide/modding ... t/producer
posted on August 7th, 2017, 1:10 am
hmm, that gives me an idea.

The biggest disadvantage the AI has is that it won't rebuild the 2 starting constructors once they are destroyed, leaving it with only 1 constructor. If you want a simple way to make the AI more resilient, you could make it so the AI can build -s constructors and tell it to build 2 of them. It wouldn't build them at the beginning of the game since it will already own 2, but if they are destroyed it will rebuild them at the accelerated speed.

I may do this in Tryptic's Mod v3, someday when I actually finish it :sweatdrop:
posted on August 7th, 2017, 4:34 pm
Bah... I didn't even dare to begin working on the AIPs yet. It's the part I'm most afraid of :sweatdrop:

By the way, thanks D_N!
posted on August 13th, 2017, 7:50 pm
Tryptic wrote:hmm, that gives me an idea.

The biggest disadvantage the AI has is that it won't rebuild the 2 starting constructors once they are destroyed, leaving it with only 1 constructor. If you want a simple way to make the AI more resilient, you could make it so the AI can build -s constructors and tell it to build 2 of them. It wouldn't build them at the beginning of the game since it will already own 2, but if they are destroyed it will rebuild them at the accelerated speed.

I may do this in Tryptic's Mod v3, someday when I actually finish it :sweatdrop:


I did that in my personal mod... great results. Granted, I also made it so they choose their buildlist (all the lists being in one file) at random and ditched the auto-spawned constructors so they could choose their avatar based on their strategy, and build the matching constructors. I'll admit though, the AI got a little too random for it's own good... :lol:
posted on August 14th, 2017, 1:30 pm
Admiral Nat wrote:I did that in my personal mod... great results. Granted, I also made it so they choose their buildlist (all the lists being in one file) at random and ditched the auto-spawned constructors so they could choose their avatar based on their strategy, and build the matching constructors. I'll admit though, the AI got a little too random for it's own good... :lol:


I would very much like to look at your code. Pretty much ANY modding by other people is valuable for me to learn from.
posted on August 14th, 2017, 3:40 pm
Tryptic wrote:
Admiral Nat wrote:I did that in my personal mod... great results. Granted, I also made it so they choose their buildlist (all the lists being in one file) at random and ditched the auto-spawned constructors so they could choose their avatar based on their strategy, and build the matching constructors. I'll admit though, the AI got a little too random for it's own good... :lol:


I would very much like to look at your code. Pretty much ANY modding by other people is valuable for me to learn from.


Well, it's an awful lot of files to actually post or PM the entirety without basically putting the entire mod out there, and the mod itself has a lot of other changes that would make it confusing to figure out what does or doesn't affect this stuff itself, so I hope I can explain it well enough to figure out. Granted, I haven't done much with fleet ops for a few months now, so sorry if my explanation is a little confusing, but I think you'll get the idea. If you want to see the code of anything in this explanation in particular, let me know. :sweatdrop:

Ok, so I've set it up so that:
  • The starter base now has, not 2, but 3 AI special weapons. The first 2, of course, are used by players, neither of which are automatically used by the AI now. The third isn't available to players (I don't think the tech tree even has it), but is used by the AI. The "weapon" in question is not unlike the existing avatar "weapons", except that it spawns a fully upgraded Starbase in place of a standard one (upgraded ones don't autobuild constructors), and has a second item that randomly chooses between invisible untargetable pods of some kind that are then used by the buildlist to determine the tech level which, in turn, determines their strategy. Yes, I am aware their starting with a fully upgraded base makes the AI a little overpowered early game, since your tiny ships can't possibly resist the firepower of a fully upgraded Starbase. It does make the AI more resilient against early game attacks, and also allows them to rebuild their Starbase if it's destroyed without resulting in swarms of starter constructors. :rolleyes:
  • FYI, the pod can, of course, still be seen with the map editor, so you can always use the editor to place the "strategy pods" manually for testing, or to have special strategies available only through manual enabling for, say, having enemy forces in the map using a certain build list, etc. Or a system that lets the AI change their strategy based on something happening to them... actually gives me an idea... :shifty:
  • The AI buildlist, of course, consists of several buildlists in one, larger file, with each list being enabled by a tech level from the strategy pods, with each and every unit in said strategy set to not be built at higher tech levels. The strategy pods are listed at the very bottom of the list, so the AI doesn't come across them and try to build them before starting any given strategy, or anything strange like that. Yes, I know this means any single strategy doesn't really use tech levels and that the AI will end up rebuilding early game ships even in the endgame. Also, be warned, the existing AIP length limit became a problem after the first few strategies, so you might want to extend the builditem line limit by a few hundred lines. :lol:
  • The Starbase itself (the ones they spawn and build, anyway) can build both variants of the starter constructors, which aren't in the tech tree and thus not usable by players, but are usable by the AI. I don't even think my version of the AI even builds regular constructors, just the starter ones, and then possibly more of the same starter ones later. I did pretty much completely rewrite their buildlists though, and they don't seem to waste time building needless stations and such early game. They start fielding ships faster than you could hope to, but they're manageable, at least on normal. Higher difficulty AIs did become a little too overpowered... especially Borg. I tried a round with me and 6 non-Borg merciless AIs all teamed up against one merciless Borg AI. The Borg won.
posted on August 15th, 2017, 1:25 pm
Oh man. If you're willing, a site like Ge.tt or mediafire would let you upload the mod for free.

Failing that, could you upload just one of the aip files for me to look at?
posted on August 15th, 2017, 6:20 pm
To be honest, I just wouldn't want anyone to get confused by any of the other changes I've made. :lol:

That said, I'm throwing together a quick mod now that'll have just the AI changes and such I've mentioned, at least for the Feds and Borg, since converting all 5 races's buildlists to account for not having certain changes would take too long for what it's worth. I'm just testing and making a few final adjustments now, so I should have it out there soon. :thumbsup:
posted on August 17th, 2017, 6:46 pm
Last edited by Admiral Nat on August 19th, 2017, 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
There you go: https://www.dropbox.com/s/08hxcglflp8r1bh/STA2FO%20Random%20AI%20Mod.zip?dl=0

Be careful. The Borg can get pretty nasty, especially if you set them to merciless difficulty... I'd suggest testing the random AI itself with the Feds, since they won't become hopelessly overwhelming, but have fun either way. :thumbsup:
posted on August 18th, 2017, 12:48 pm
Awesome! Thanks a lot, I'll probably end up delving into the whole thing to study it. I'm no stranger to AI testing; for the last version of TM I had to watch dozens of AI vs AI games going to catch the bugs and hiccups
posted on August 18th, 2017, 11:59 pm
Tryptic wrote:Awesome! Thanks a lot, I'll probably end up delving into the whole thing to study it. I'm no stranger to AI testing; for the last version of TM I had to watch dozens of AI vs AI games going to catch the bugs and hiccups


Same here. I'll admit, I actually had to nerf the Borg AI by far, but they are still hopelessly overpowered as an AI, particularly on higher difficulties. :pinch:
posted on August 19th, 2017, 4:45 am
That link seems to be dead, or maybe I don't have permission to access the file. Honestly, I'd like to see as much of your files as you're willing to share.

I've wanted to add more complex AI for Tryptic's Mod, but when other changes can force me to rewrite the AI, it tends to be at the bottom of my list. I've been thinking of some mechanics I'd like to try when I finally get to that point.

For example, the AI starbase could have a weapon that fires at enemy starbases with a specific range, like 8000 units, and spawns a tech pod. That way the AI can have different behavior on a small map, with an enemy close by, vs on a large map where they are far away. I'd also like to introduce some Map Editor objects that affect the build list so that people can make custom maps that define AI behavior.
posted on August 19th, 2017, 1:45 pm
Ok, try it now. :pinch:

Tryptic wrote:For example, the AI starbase could have a weapon that fires at enemy starbases with a specific range, like 8000 units, and spawns a tech pod. That way the AI can have different behavior on a small map, with an enemy close by, vs on a large map where they are far away. I'd also like to introduce some Map Editor objects that affect the build list so that people can make custom maps that define AI behavior.


Those all sound fairly possible. I was actually thinking of trying to make the AI change their strategy if their current strategy is failing, although I'm not sure how I could make the AI realize their units are all dying and make that trigger a replaceweapon to replace their strategy pod. Or better yet, have them recognize what's killing their ships and what ships they're already using (and losing), effectively allowing them to actively counter the enemy strategy... once I do that, it's all over. :lol:
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