Transmission Matrix Start

[godsvoice]

posted on February 2nd, 2012, 3:04 am

Last edited by godsvoice on February 2nd, 2012, 3:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

Borg: Assimilate, or Optimize

For small maps like hell gate, pathtonowwhere, etc with centralized pathways.

Send borg constructor to the centre location and build transmission matrix. When it is complete research station holding beam. Constructor spams conduction matrix (cheap 400 200) in the centralized location, and incubation centres.

Build miners.

Build probes to initially protect construction ship while it is setting up the centralized conduction matrix spam.

This severely limits mobility of the enemy and his expansion. Upwards of five-six stations that can assimilate. Of course, a player will probably only target one at a time, limiting its usages. But if you manage to snag a passing constructor in between routes to expansions, or easily grab some early ships, could severely hamper opponents progress.

Assimilate avatar was particularly of interest here. With the centralized position, secure what expansions you can on these smaller maps. Incubation centres also aid in assimilating vessels.

Conduction Matrix spam beats AI merciless Fed.

Interesting to see what this does towards the other factions. Feds have lower crew levels for early game vessels.

I took over a dozen newtons. Heck even just getting to Eight is insane. The merciless ai achilles heal. Eight upgraded newtons, I destroyed the AI with a fleet of 20 sabers with instant self-repair. lol

Didn't even build an uplink or probe (but online, which I now think is worth a shot, you want probes to defend constructor that is out in the open but would need conduction matrix). But yeah, you require fewer resources towards ship building for early part. Centralized station turrets with massive crew sizes, and much stronger hull anyways.

Holding beam will be research around 5 min 30 sec. Very little can be done against a constructor in this time frame I would think. 1 or 2 probes can be quickly sent to defend it. But yeah. Conduction matrix at 400 200 can be quickly spammed around this transmission centre. Immovable wall of assimilation.

Resistance is futile. Maybe? Probably worse for feds and dom, more so than roms or klinks with cloak.

Edit: Just looked over some of the numbers. Dominion and feds certainly would have problems, if I were to guess online results. Can't cloak, and low crew for early ships. Klingons however can cloak, and even though slightly higher crews in some spots, still fairly low. Ultimately though, ships like susa should help them out. Finally Romulans. Maybe not so bad... fairly decent crew sizes. So takes time to assimilate even a single ship, and can cloak right through them anyways. But I'm sure online players have ways to deal with cloaked romulans. It might be an easy fix for borg player, don't really know.

Slightly adjusted from that outland thread. It actually just makes more sense to start with transmission matrix and get the holding beam right away. And why not, station turrets.

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 10:12 pm

Uh-uh, there is no way you're gonna pull this off.

Fed intrepids would hold the probes at bay while shooting at the constructor almost unhindered. If by some damn miracle your constructor survives, its gonna eat it when the warpins come!

Dominion will have 5 bugs by the time you get one probe out and its just too much for it to handle.

A decent klingon will do k'beajq vs. the borg in the first place, which on its own already has more stats than the probe and can get more of them on the field than you...

...and the romulan will pretty much smurk at you with your probes desperately trying to kill at least one rhienn with phase plates.


No matter what race it is, they will keep an eye on your constructor with their scouts and by the time you sail out of your base without building any ships you set yourself out for the slaughter.

I didn't want to dissapoint you, but you simply couldn't do it fast enough. transmission matrix just takes forever to build and for a human player, that helpless constructor is just too tempting target to let dance around the chokepoints, buidling nonsence!

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 10:42 pm

There is a significant difference between the AI and people. It would be nice if the AI would act human enough to use as a trainer, but for now it just makes for a good time-waster. The strategy for the AI is basically to use spam. It cannot adapt, or even recover from prolonged assault well. Basically if you tried to create building butt plugs in chokes, it would utterly fail against a human. The AI, however, gives you free ships for it! 

I remember some RTS AI's being better, but never for an Armada game.

posted on February 3rd, 2012, 11:04 pm

It would be an interesting match, but basically the human would just need to sit out of range with a long-range ship and kill the constructor/conduction matrixes.  It would take him a while, but you're going to be SO SLOW to get started on ships, I would almost try getting a second constructor to start up faster.

It would really depend on whether the human was careful about his ships and kept them out of range, that changes everything.  Against the AI, this sounds like a fun and unique strategy 

posted on February 4th, 2012, 12:09 am

Hmm. K. But this is a restricted strategy, yes? Really, look at the map Hellgate. I can get up at least a few stations and have holding beam ready in six minutes or so with a probe. Well two stations, but I don't see how you attack me with ships before three stations. Significantly at least.

My constructor will always be close to the stations, so in order to attack that constructor ship the intrepids will have to enter the range of my stations.

I actually am thinking Dominion would beat this easily because of bombers doing so much damage to stations. And some of those ships can attack the conduction matrix out of range.

But most fed ships can't. Sabers yes... but I have nothing to fear from pesky sabers in the beginning. You would need more than half a dozen for it to matter. Canaverals yes, but even they take time. Finally E2 when it comes out would be a problem... but that is pretty far off.

The warpins would get there around the right time, if you want SFC rushing. But that is random chance. You will probably get at least 1 e1, but some of those other ships aren't much of a problem. Nebs attack within range, so do the other destroyers and even cruisers.

I can only fit three conduction matrix and 1 transmission matrix inside the pathway of Hellgate. When that is done, say 7 min, I get an uplinks and incubation centre to alternate my builds. I can research specials and have saved up resources with an expansion to start building minimum assim if not better ships. I would research first cc upgrade, and have quite a few saved.

Your ships can't pass through that centre without being assimilated, very little to fear in terms of resource harassment. Yet I can expand to both expansions, and if you get even one, which I can't stop, you will get cut off eventually.

I understand why in theory this doesn't work, because lots of good ships to blow things up. But on the other hand, just seeing it, specifically on some of these maps, it just doesn't seem that straight forward. Romulans have a lot of ships with 110 crew so takes time to assimilate that, and they cloak... so never try it against them. Dominion can just go bombers, and those stations wouldn't last very long.

So I guess I'm really picking on the federation again  Silly federation. Low crewed destroyers, medium range easy catching. I don't even want the ship really. Just means you have to destroy what you put resources into building.

Yeah, I dunno... against federation I think there is a chance. Not a single intrepid until over 3 min. Two intrepids aren't going to destroy my constructor with a looming station over top it to assimilate them.

If it doesn't work, doesn't work, but it would be fun to try. Pathtonowhere or Hellgate I would suggest. Bigger maps obviously just doesn't work.

[godsvoice]

posted on February 4th, 2012, 12:30 am

Last edited by godsvoice on February 4th, 2012, 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Ok so it might be hard to see.

You build four stations right in the centre of the map. You also need to build an additional station on the outside where the ships can be sent through the purple nebula so that when they come out the other end they meet two conduction matrix, 1 from the centre, one on the other side. AI actually does do this to try to evade stations. A little.

So conduction matrix x4 = 1600 800. Similar to two Klingon turrets. These guys can take a fair beating in early game, but also pack an assimilating punch.

So you spend zero resources except on miners and whatever probes. Then you build first uplink then incubation. For assimilation it should work quite nicely. Researching a very cheap cc upgrade right at the beginning and saving up for a sphere maybe.

The other is the fruits of an AI merciless game. I'm not sure if the Borg have a trophy wall, but I put one on display. A good 80 ships or so just wrecked the place. Definitely a fun game against the AI, very true.

Attachments

posted on February 4th, 2012, 9:14 am

Hahaha, that's so funny, you still persist at it, looks like im gonna have to look you up on the field of battle and put you down the hard way!

Sure, why not, they did it to me too when my feet were still dry, i had grandiose strategies with which i had the merciless AI begging for mercy himself, then i got bitch-slapped to death by the first person who was on tunngle at the time i came on!

posted on February 4th, 2012, 3:03 pm

This looks like a fun strategy.  But it would require nothing short of absolute precision on the part of the Borg.  Otherwise, resistance will not be futile.  Also, there is only one way to find out if a strategy works.

[godsvoice]

posted on February 4th, 2012, 3:56 pm

Last edited by godsvoice on February 4th, 2012, 4:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Unfortunately I haven't made my way online. Just play AI.

It's weird though, months ago I loved playing on mid to larger size maps, and found smaller maps to be quite difficult to play against AI as it was so fast with ships. I also tried to give ideas for online gameplay that might not have been helpful because uptime's didn't mean the same thing with larger maps. But now playing on these much smaller maps, just for the heck of it, I tried timing a few of my strats, and while of course I might be wrong, a lot of them seemed to work quite well in a very short amount of time.

For whatever reason, the games seem much more winnable now on small maps than they did at first. So long as it is a Dominion or Fed opponent. Romulans and Klingons are still pretty rough for small maps though, like when I play against them. Those AI's are pretty strong and cloak.

Normally my strategies are suggestive for fun AI games. But then I start to wonder for a couple of them about what would happen online. If you happen to find other people online who are wondering about this, maybe a Borg vs Fed game can be setup Hellgate. Agreed. The borg game needs to be precise. But at the same time it is very doable. There are very few things to focus on, but they need to be done right. Practise against the AI and just get the feel for it. Build four miners. Send constructor and scout to the centre. Setup transmission and research holding beam. By this time all but one miner will be good to go. Scout both expansions to see what opponent is doing. Get conductions up and research. The trick is the research that prevents use of holding beam. Generally immediately after holding beam is research I gamble and research another special. But this is really early on.

I dunno, its maybe something you can try against AI to get the feel for it. If you like it give it a shot against humans online. There would be trial and errors anyways. You need to know where to put the stations, and they have to be right up against the asteroid belts and nebulas or else you will run out of room. Once those are up, you can build uplinks in behind the stations and incubation centres. Everything will be centralized. In my view, that should really give cramp up your opponent. It puts him in an unfortunate position. Walking into holding beams is not a fun choice to make.

Edit: Oh and with this one I didn't bother to suggest intercept relays.. but just imagine what that would do. Walking into station holding beams and dode relays. You either get pounded or assimilated. Against AI I skipped over relays because I find I almost always build them against AI by default because its a pretty powerful start. But with station turrets and dode turrets... this really seems hopeless to you online players eh? Maybe I am missing something. What can you build so early on to beat this as feds? Not that it is impossible to lose... I just don't see it as automatically losing.

posted on February 4th, 2012, 7:01 pm

Oh yeah, that's why I always encourage new players to play on small maps even when they don't want to.  In the beginning it feels harder to keep up, when in fact that's just an illusion.  A good player on a large map will have even more time to out-build a new player, and to make matters worse the new player feels like he doesn't need to scout on the large map.  In the end he isn't safer at all, it just takes longer for him to fall.

As for the strategy, I can see more how it would work if the number of expansions is severely limited.  Still, you're underestimating something that's sort of a hidden factor in Fleet Ops:

You see, a lot of players come up with crazy strategies like this one.  Sort of like my Saeihr spam, they are strategies that only work if the enemy doesn't raid you right away.  And when I see somebody doing a transmission matrix rush, or something else that guarantees they won't be able to attack me early, I sit back and go, "Yay, now I can use that weird strategy against him!"

For example, a hard E2 rush is ridiculous because it leaves you completely undefended.  Still, if the enemy sees you doing this and does an E2 rush to counter it, I just tried it and he can get his first E2 around the 4.5 minute mark.  Then that ship can sit and bombard you till the sun goes down on the Borg empire.

Also, as you said the first intrepid can be out around the 3.5 minute mark or sooner, that means it has 2.5 minutes of free shooting before you get holding beams.  That'll be all he needs to take down your constructor, especially if he double-yards them.

Still, I expect the first time you did this to someone you'd have a good chance of winning just because of the shock value    After that, people would learn to scout you immediately and adapt.  It would be a good lesson for them though 

posted on February 4th, 2012, 7:16 pm

Some strategies seem to be a one-shot deal.  You play it out, and regardless of whether or not it works, you won't be able to do that strategy ever again!

[godsvoice]

posted on February 4th, 2012, 7:26 pm

Last edited by godsvoice on February 4th, 2012, 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yes an early E2 would not be good.

But I am still looking at ways to turn these borg stations into offensive turrets.

Even if this were to ultimately fail, it would be much faster if say I gave up the centre, and built 1 transmission matrix right out of star base, and then one conduction matrix. Leaving out all the travel time to the centre. Which takes out a good 30 sec to a min. Borg constructor is pretty slow.

Then later, finding ways to build offensive conduction matrix with holding beam research.

Either way it is a good AI game at least. Against Dominion you will actually have greater difficulty. AI builds Bombers and those breen long range cruisers. Against Fed AI you never worry about losing a station, not to mention the newtons you capture help you to easily repair them after battles. But against Dominion AI, in the best game I only lost 1 station at the beginning. Easier to mess it up against them.

In general though, I'm more interested in these crazy strats though. They help you think about the game different. How to use the units different.

Still, just to be stubborn , even with early e2 at 4.5 you would have no fleet. You would need at least two of them. 1 is going to do zip against me. I just make sure my constructor is out of range. By 5.37 I believe, both transmission and conduction matrix are up with holding beam. So I just hide behind those. Build an uplink with whatever I choose. I dunno. But felt like sharing the fun start. Borg player has a goal of four stations, but he can alter it as well, adapt. Even with two stations with holding beams, thats a decent defence. Just go right from that to uplinks then when you have a better fleet, look at finishing the strong centre with more conduction matrix.

Even if it is only once! You'd both be on the seat of your pants!

Edit: So I was thinking about this... I really don't think the E2 counter would work. Or at least, I'd need some points to clarify. What ships do you have with this? Are we talking putting all resources into it? Or can you still manage to get some sabres and monsoons with intrepids? Because for borg I would say this is really very flexible. I save my cc's I can have transmission up in under 4, and conduction matrix doesn't take too long. Because I can also scout out my opponent. And if I see that you are building eraudi, then I know that I don't need to go conduction spam at all... because you won't be able to have a fleet that large. So that I just go for a single large battleship, or a couple of good adaptors. And then without a fleet my ships squash yours. I think there is more here than meets the eye.

posted on February 4th, 2012, 7:53 pm

The thing with the E2 start is that you will NEVER, EVER assimilate an E2.  It sits out of range of your holding beams and gets to fire for free.  The only way you will be able to even attack it is with ships.

Actually, I've experimented in the past with Assim incubation chambers in the same way you're talking about, but I finally came to the conclusion that in any realistic strategy you still have to build the conduciton matrix first.  You just have to get those early defenders out.

Try combining this with an Assim rush; build the conduction matrix and one uplink before the transmission matrix.  You don't have to full-rush the Assim, but you'll have the uplink available when you're ready to build it.  One assim supporting the stations will eliminate the problem of long-range enemies firing without any retaliation.

posted on February 4th, 2012, 7:59 pm

No, I know but that's what I'm saying. If you do get that excelsior and attack me, than I abandon building stations and go for ships. And that SINGLE e2 will do absolutely nothing. I will have plenty of time to build an uplink and with very few resources spent, just on the four miners and two stations, I'll be able to get a better ship than your e2. Because the map will have this invisible line that your e2 can't cross, or it gets snagged by holding beams.

I'm not saying I know the best setup, maybe conduction first than transmission is best, but between getting cc upgrade, or earlier holding beam, I'd say that holding beam is just as important early on.

We will both have heavy scouting to do. If I see fleet, I know its mid range ships that I can get and should go conduction spam in centre. If it is just e2 then I go right to ships, because borg vessels would kill an e2 easily. Without numbers, borg always have better ships 1 on 1.

posted on February 5th, 2012, 11:45 am

The problem is that the build requires the Fed to make a mistake and not go E2 when he sees you go for this build, which will be scouted much earlier than an E2 rush.
If he goes E2 and then you switch to ships only after that E2 appears, you will be far behind in CCs and wasted time building the transmission matrix, whereas he can build other ships faster without much of a problem.