Success! Once Again
Share and discuss your gameplay strategies.
posted on November 20th, 2011, 7:32 pm
Last edited by godsvoice on November 21st, 2011, 6:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
Game:
Player: Klingon Martok Team 1
AI: Federation Merciless Red Team 2
AI: Federation Merciless Orange Team 2
AI: Federation Merciless Yellow Team 2
Settings: Normal Resources, Shroud Fog Off, Special Weapons Auto Inactive, Non-Player Races Off
Map: Naleri Fixed Placement: Player Bottom Centre AI red top left, ai orange top middle, ai yellow top right.
Commence. You Are Victorious! Ahh, what fun what fun.
Initial build order: Three construction ships, Miners times infinity (16 - 20 miners total)
Provided constructors build Di and Tri. Move to bottom of map, build di and Tri. One goes to the left expansion, the other to the right expansion. Both build di and tri in each of those.
First two constructors build go to middle of board, build di and tri. After that, build one field yard each. expand field yard for bird of prey and kbeajq yard. after that each constructor builds one starbase on either side of the expansion close to the asteroid belts that offer protection. some time after that, they each build one more starbase right beside but in a diagonal, extending outward toward map, not inward defending expansion. (fifth constructor can build research facility)
Build starbases at bottom expansions as well. Although in the end, I lost a few, and didn;t bother rebuilding them. but to start get those expansions up.
Home base builds miners to supply bottom half of the refineries. the middle expansions up top wait for their star bases to be built, and then get miners from there.
Build kbeajq and kvort to infinity. Eventually, bring out 3 and 4 field yards. 6 yards will win it. 3 kvort, 3 kbeajq continuous spam.
Top middle AI won't expand well, and won't attack very well.
First attack, take a combined fleet of twenty-30 ships *when you reach that), and crush ai starbase on top right. Take that fleet and destroy the starbase in the top middle. cloak them on their way there to top right, and then again to middle, and then just cloak them and leave them there. refocus on your centre, build up a stronger fleet to come up and help them.
EDIT: you can try to move them over to the last remaining starbase, but by that time, i found my fleet of 30 had dwindled to low to risk an attack. with special weapons auto inactive, the first starbase should fall pretty quickly. unleash kvort special. uncloak all ships, unleash kbeajq special on starbase. blow it up. cloak. go to second ... you won't have the special anymore no time to recharge it. but the starbase will still fall to the 20-25 remaining ships. but by the end of that one, which will incur greater casualties. last one isn't worth it. (plus, you've been letting the ai build for 20 minutes now or so, so they have a fair number of turrets as well to crack down on your ships, but you do damage enough taking out two home starbases, a real kick in the pants)
ai left top corner will get strong, but you have 8 expansions, all with star bases... (more or less, during top raids they'll probably destroy a few expansions, and I didn't get every expansion with a starbase, maybe 5 total) you are better than the ai and will win.
yea.
Player: Klingon Martok Team 1
AI: Federation Merciless Red Team 2
AI: Federation Merciless Orange Team 2
AI: Federation Merciless Yellow Team 2
Settings: Normal Resources, Shroud Fog Off, Special Weapons Auto Inactive, Non-Player Races Off
Map: Naleri Fixed Placement: Player Bottom Centre AI red top left, ai orange top middle, ai yellow top right.
Commence. You Are Victorious! Ahh, what fun what fun.
Initial build order: Three construction ships, Miners times infinity (16 - 20 miners total)
Provided constructors build Di and Tri. Move to bottom of map, build di and Tri. One goes to the left expansion, the other to the right expansion. Both build di and tri in each of those.
First two constructors build go to middle of board, build di and tri. After that, build one field yard each. expand field yard for bird of prey and kbeajq yard. after that each constructor builds one starbase on either side of the expansion close to the asteroid belts that offer protection. some time after that, they each build one more starbase right beside but in a diagonal, extending outward toward map, not inward defending expansion. (fifth constructor can build research facility)
Build starbases at bottom expansions as well. Although in the end, I lost a few, and didn;t bother rebuilding them. but to start get those expansions up.
Home base builds miners to supply bottom half of the refineries. the middle expansions up top wait for their star bases to be built, and then get miners from there.
Build kbeajq and kvort to infinity. Eventually, bring out 3 and 4 field yards. 6 yards will win it. 3 kvort, 3 kbeajq continuous spam.
Top middle AI won't expand well, and won't attack very well.
First attack, take a combined fleet of twenty-30 ships *when you reach that), and crush ai starbase on top right. Take that fleet and destroy the starbase in the top middle. cloak them on their way there to top right, and then again to middle, and then just cloak them and leave them there. refocus on your centre, build up a stronger fleet to come up and help them.
EDIT: you can try to move them over to the last remaining starbase, but by that time, i found my fleet of 30 had dwindled to low to risk an attack. with special weapons auto inactive, the first starbase should fall pretty quickly. unleash kvort special. uncloak all ships, unleash kbeajq special on starbase. blow it up. cloak. go to second ... you won't have the special anymore no time to recharge it. but the starbase will still fall to the 20-25 remaining ships. but by the end of that one, which will incur greater casualties. last one isn't worth it. (plus, you've been letting the ai build for 20 minutes now or so, so they have a fair number of turrets as well to crack down on your ships, but you do damage enough taking out two home starbases, a real kick in the pants)
ai left top corner will get strong, but you have 8 expansions, all with star bases... (more or less, during top raids they'll probably destroy a few expansions, and I didn't get every expansion with a starbase, maybe 5 total) you are better than the ai and will win.
yea.
posted on November 20th, 2011, 8:06 pm
Last edited by godsvoice on November 20th, 2011, 8:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Tips Warnings For anyone who is interested in this.
First off, probably good to let you know you won't have a single ship for a good 9-12 minutes. So.. be aware of that. No slacking, that's all the down time you'll get. Once the AI starts attacking 10 or so minutes in... joy ride it will be. But actually, this is much easier than blue amber. So, get economy up. Get yards up, with both extensions first. The get both star bases up on either side. Then when you can afford it, start spamming. Eventually you will get surplus. First surplus build your 3rd and 4th starbases at middle expansions. Then future surplus will be allotted to starbase upgrades, offensive priority, and more starbases at lower expansions, and then additional yards.
You are only building field yard units. At some point.. it's probably fine to tech up, but I didn't bother.
The rush is really in the first twenty minutes, then another hour or two of wrestling.
Blue amber was a nicer map, but with how the ai set up, they easily join forces to attack a central expansion of yours, which you need to defend with 3-4 starbases, and numerous turrets 15 - 20 maybe. This, you don't need any turrets whatsoever. You have a natural barrier of asteroids to stop the AI from joint attacks. Yellow will come down on the right and attack, red from the left, and orange will do whatever from in the middle. But they don't attack one spot relentlessly. Which has its ups and downs.
Once 10-12 min or so passes, you should have all yards up, and two starbases under way. I estimate these times, but i assume it is close. Then you will have plenty of resources being collected to start a real spam capable of kicking some AI butt.
I imagine a lot of it will be annoying simply because of all of the coloured dots on your side of the board... but not much I can do about that. Pick your battles.
Once you get a fleet up on their side of the map though, always push offensively, the downside is its a larger map. Naleri you can't have fleets going back and forth, you will waste time and momentum. So keep pushing ahead with offensives, if you lose ships, cloak, don't repair. just wait until you can get more forces up top to continue on. Blue amber was a smaller funner map in some ways, because it was easier to manage the whole thing, naleri is larger though.
it should be a fun game though.
edit: oh! and always fill up your tri moons first with miners! you'll have shortages of course, mostly in tri, so get that going. and beyond that. we all know what it's like.
First off, probably good to let you know you won't have a single ship for a good 9-12 minutes. So.. be aware of that. No slacking, that's all the down time you'll get. Once the AI starts attacking 10 or so minutes in... joy ride it will be. But actually, this is much easier than blue amber. So, get economy up. Get yards up, with both extensions first. The get both star bases up on either side. Then when you can afford it, start spamming. Eventually you will get surplus. First surplus build your 3rd and 4th starbases at middle expansions. Then future surplus will be allotted to starbase upgrades, offensive priority, and more starbases at lower expansions, and then additional yards.
You are only building field yard units. At some point.. it's probably fine to tech up, but I didn't bother.
The rush is really in the first twenty minutes, then another hour or two of wrestling.
Blue amber was a nicer map, but with how the ai set up, they easily join forces to attack a central expansion of yours, which you need to defend with 3-4 starbases, and numerous turrets 15 - 20 maybe. This, you don't need any turrets whatsoever. You have a natural barrier of asteroids to stop the AI from joint attacks. Yellow will come down on the right and attack, red from the left, and orange will do whatever from in the middle. But they don't attack one spot relentlessly. Which has its ups and downs.
Once 10-12 min or so passes, you should have all yards up, and two starbases under way. I estimate these times, but i assume it is close. Then you will have plenty of resources being collected to start a real spam capable of kicking some AI butt.
I imagine a lot of it will be annoying simply because of all of the coloured dots on your side of the board... but not much I can do about that. Pick your battles.
Once you get a fleet up on their side of the map though, always push offensively, the downside is its a larger map. Naleri you can't have fleets going back and forth, you will waste time and momentum. So keep pushing ahead with offensives, if you lose ships, cloak, don't repair. just wait until you can get more forces up top to continue on. Blue amber was a smaller funner map in some ways, because it was easier to manage the whole thing, naleri is larger though.
it should be a fun game though.
edit: oh! and always fill up your tri moons first with miners! you'll have shortages of course, mostly in tri, so get that going. and beyond that. we all know what it's like.
posted on November 21st, 2011, 6:19 am
I've actually seen an offensive starbase built in an online game once. Worthless, but funny as hell.
posted on November 21st, 2011, 6:42 am
Last edited by godsvoice on November 21st, 2011, 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
lol, what the guy do? build the starbase at his enemies expansion? i would think thats pretty funny, nothing about after the starbase was finished, but just that the guy would have enough time to send his constructor all the way over, and get the starbase built.
guess it depends on what an offensive starbase looks like. either that, or it's just built uncomfortably close to enemy lines, somewhat like a proxy yard.
choke points would be defensive wouldn't they?
but I think I see your point... in that if you use a starbase to attack... lol worthless in that as soon as you take that location, you've built this starbase that can't move anywhere, or attack anything else.
on the other hand, all things are worth a try against the AI. that would mean ai would have troubles rebuilding.
er, i mean as for this game, the starbases are all defensive. the one's that go out diagonally, are just meant to grab enemy ships as they swing around the belt. the ai always attacks when it is confronted. this way, you can manage the ships attacking your side of the board. because it comes out diagonally, more ships get caught up in battle. so my bottom expansions have more time to get star bases, or just be left alone. mostly that reason. (the bottom expansions, even my home base, is literally two refineries with a starbase in between them. but ai ships can still attack with e2s, e1s, and such from either side and destroy my expansions. so the above slows them down)
guess it depends on what an offensive starbase looks like. either that, or it's just built uncomfortably close to enemy lines, somewhat like a proxy yard.
choke points would be defensive wouldn't they?
but I think I see your point... in that if you use a starbase to attack... lol worthless in that as soon as you take that location, you've built this starbase that can't move anywhere, or attack anything else.
on the other hand, all things are worth a try against the AI. that would mean ai would have troubles rebuilding.
er, i mean as for this game, the starbases are all defensive. the one's that go out diagonally, are just meant to grab enemy ships as they swing around the belt. the ai always attacks when it is confronted. this way, you can manage the ships attacking your side of the board. because it comes out diagonally, more ships get caught up in battle. so my bottom expansions have more time to get star bases, or just be left alone. mostly that reason. (the bottom expansions, even my home base, is literally two refineries with a starbase in between them. but ai ships can still attack with e2s, e1s, and such from either side and destroy my expansions. so the above slows them down)
posted on November 22nd, 2011, 8:38 am
I saw a quite succesful starbase building at First strike right at the enemy expansion - possible with Borg since their con is hard to kill with early game ships.
Furthermore there is the starbase build/KTinga spam. TaQ'Roja only of course, gives you an incredible load of ships(=KTingas) in a short time.
Furthermore there is the starbase build/KTinga spam. TaQ'Roja only of course, gives you an incredible load of ships(=KTingas) in a short time.
posted on November 22nd, 2011, 8:03 pm
Last edited by godsvoice on November 22nd, 2011, 8:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Yeah, I used Ktinga rush a lot in previous patches. However, I have never used it vs 3 mercy ai.
On another matter, successful once again on a different map!
Little frontier run I believe it was called. This one was quite challenging and took a few tries actually. Fantastic little map, but hard to control!
I analyzed the shit out of my failed games... some things I thought were pointedly significant in my victory.
The general layout was the same. AI got the top half, I got the bottom middlish, to the right.
This was tough though.
What really helped:
Focussed expansions. In the beginning, I tried expanding to all the lower moon pairs on the map, a total of 14 moon, the 5 on the bottom most part, and the 2 on top of either side of the first asteroid with moon pairs on either side. I built di and tri. Gave each starbases as best I could. I was standing toe to toe with the AI for about an hour, but I was scrambling to defend everything I had built, and could never get an offensive going.
(So with that, you save the time and resources of having to build those tri refineries, and yeah, free up time too)
Lessons: It was a waste building both a di and tri expansion. In my winning game, I only bothered going for 5 tri moons. I then took the other two expansions only di though. I did not bother defending the majority of the expansions. Especially the di only ones. They helped in the early game to boost my di enough to get star bases at my other expansions only. The asteroid belt right above my starting point was where I really focussed. I built 4 starbases, 2 point blank where the ai would come, and the other two on either side respectively, further down. The star bases were hugging the moons, and in general, covered as much of the area as I could. Here I built all my yards, some research and so on. My home base was not developed except for the first research station.
Similar to chess: sacrifice a piece to gain position or momentum. Instead of sending my fleets around to defend my expansions, i sacrificed 4 of my moon pairs in order to launch attacks against the AI. In destroying one AI completely, I forced a number of ai ships to retreat and engage me, while the rest plundered back home. But just getting that one ai out of the game created a lot of space. I had an unstoppable force of 50ish ships. I just couldn't use them to defend.
So, build the expansions. It's the initial boost you need. Two kbeajq yards and two kvorts yard can be sustained with three full expansions. The others only gave a big boost to help my star bases get setup and upgraded. But when they were, the AI had a tough time with them and my ships I was constantly producing, and my offensive fleets. After that, sacrifice them. The ai will send huge number of fleets to attack them... which you could engage with your large fleet, and probably destroy them at a fairly high price, but why?
Send your huge fleet down to the enemy starbase and kick its butt.
Although, first, I fairly aggressively annihilated the centre expansions of the ai, ignoring the side ones and everything.
But once the centre is gone, the ai home base is open for destruction. Nothing the ai could do.
LOL oh yeah... ! and I changed the game speed to one notch less then normal... That was a signature move right there. I waited til the end of the post to say that. If you are still reading this, hurray. It took more time to build stuff, but! I really had to think things through throughout the whole game. Maintaining the beginning... moon expansions, freighter transport, star base construction, resource management, ship production.... its a lot to take care of. And 3 ai in this case was tougher then ever. So i slowed the speed of the game down, gave myself time to think. During the game, I had more time to look around the board. K. so yeah. In the beginning it for sure really helped, but later on, it probably didn't matter so much.
On another matter, successful once again on a different map!
Little frontier run I believe it was called. This one was quite challenging and took a few tries actually. Fantastic little map, but hard to control!
I analyzed the shit out of my failed games... some things I thought were pointedly significant in my victory.
The general layout was the same. AI got the top half, I got the bottom middlish, to the right.
This was tough though.
What really helped:
Focussed expansions. In the beginning, I tried expanding to all the lower moon pairs on the map, a total of 14 moon, the 5 on the bottom most part, and the 2 on top of either side of the first asteroid with moon pairs on either side. I built di and tri. Gave each starbases as best I could. I was standing toe to toe with the AI for about an hour, but I was scrambling to defend everything I had built, and could never get an offensive going.
(So with that, you save the time and resources of having to build those tri refineries, and yeah, free up time too)
Lessons: It was a waste building both a di and tri expansion. In my winning game, I only bothered going for 5 tri moons. I then took the other two expansions only di though. I did not bother defending the majority of the expansions. Especially the di only ones. They helped in the early game to boost my di enough to get star bases at my other expansions only. The asteroid belt right above my starting point was where I really focussed. I built 4 starbases, 2 point blank where the ai would come, and the other two on either side respectively, further down. The star bases were hugging the moons, and in general, covered as much of the area as I could. Here I built all my yards, some research and so on. My home base was not developed except for the first research station.
Similar to chess: sacrifice a piece to gain position or momentum. Instead of sending my fleets around to defend my expansions, i sacrificed 4 of my moon pairs in order to launch attacks against the AI. In destroying one AI completely, I forced a number of ai ships to retreat and engage me, while the rest plundered back home. But just getting that one ai out of the game created a lot of space. I had an unstoppable force of 50ish ships. I just couldn't use them to defend.
So, build the expansions. It's the initial boost you need. Two kbeajq yards and two kvorts yard can be sustained with three full expansions. The others only gave a big boost to help my star bases get setup and upgraded. But when they were, the AI had a tough time with them and my ships I was constantly producing, and my offensive fleets. After that, sacrifice them. The ai will send huge number of fleets to attack them... which you could engage with your large fleet, and probably destroy them at a fairly high price, but why?
Send your huge fleet down to the enemy starbase and kick its butt.
Although, first, I fairly aggressively annihilated the centre expansions of the ai, ignoring the side ones and everything.
But once the centre is gone, the ai home base is open for destruction. Nothing the ai could do.
LOL oh yeah... ! and I changed the game speed to one notch less then normal... That was a signature move right there. I waited til the end of the post to say that. If you are still reading this, hurray. It took more time to build stuff, but! I really had to think things through throughout the whole game. Maintaining the beginning... moon expansions, freighter transport, star base construction, resource management, ship production.... its a lot to take care of. And 3 ai in this case was tougher then ever. So i slowed the speed of the game down, gave myself time to think. During the game, I had more time to look around the board. K. so yeah. In the beginning it for sure really helped, but later on, it probably didn't matter so much.
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