Strategy Mythbusters!

posted on November 28th, 2012, 10:47 pm

Okay, this is a thread for strategic myths and ideas. And the big time players can either confirm or bust these myths. I will post the first myth.

You are Klingon (Martok) going against Borg (Assimilation).

The Borg player does a rush for Spheres, and he builds a lot of spheres that use the energy drain. Would the best mid-game counter be the LuSpet?

posted on November 29th, 2012, 5:26 am

If the Borg rushes straight for a Sphere, he will be dead before you even need any Luspet.
(in this case you can harass him from start on and outspam him with pretty much anything)
Next!

posted on November 29th, 2012, 3:19 pm

But that type of build uses a special build order and your opponent will have to know what that build order is. If he doesn't or if he doesn't catch it in time, then the Borg wins!

posted on November 29th, 2012, 3:23 pm

If the Borg rushes straight for a Sphere, he will be dead before you even need any Luspet.
(in this case you can harass him from start on and outspam him with pretty much anything)
Next!

This, question answered thread closed lol.

posted on November 29th, 2012, 3:28 pm

Alright... here is another myth. (Why am I the only one posing questions?)

A combined fleet consisting mostly of Sovereigns and Excelsior IIs as Federation (Mayson) can be overcome with a Klingon fleet of Susa's and K'Vorts.

posted on November 29th, 2012, 5:39 pm

...your opponent will have to know what that build order is...

This is called scouting, something you need to do anyways.
Between two decent players a sphere rush will not work. Against newbies, like yourself (no offense), you can even rush for a cube with a hand full of scubes / dodes prior to it.


Back to the new question. It depends on too many possibilities:
With or without tech cost? With or without prior gameplay / harassing? With or without specials? Who has map control? Who has the better economy due it? Why Mayson (besides the ACS boost)?
And important: with or without using micro management?

posted on November 30th, 2012, 12:43 am

Even though I sort of know the answer to this one as Ray found out in a match once upon a time, I hear it brought up to this day. The myth: The Breen Cruisers are completely useless. Is there any build order against any race where they are actually useful?

posted on November 30th, 2012, 2:06 am

Even though I sort of know the answer to this one as Ray found out in a match once upon a time, I hear it brought up to this day. The myth: The Breen Cruisers are completely useless. Is there any build order against any race where they are actually useful?

I find that they are great mid-game Cruisers when going up against a Romulan Player who uses Rhienns or Shrikes rather frequently. Also they are good against Federation Intrepids, Dominion Escort Cruisers, Federation Excelsiors and Centaur warp-ins, Klingon Chargh, Klingon Qaw'DuJ. Just have not tested against Borg ships yet.

posted on November 30th, 2012, 7:27 am

...The myth: The Breen Cruisers are completely useless. Is there any build order against any race where they are actually useful?

In theory a couple, practical not really.
Against Borg it seems to work best so far.

I find that they are great mid-game Cruisers when going up against a Romulan Player who uses Rhienns or Shrikes rather frequently. Also they are good against Federation Intrepids, Dominion Escort Cruisers, Federation Excelsiors and Centaur warp-ins, Klingon Chargh, Klingon Qaw'DuJ. Just have not tested against Borg ships yet.

Romulan can switch production too easily, or raid you to death before you got a good mass, so can the Fed player (Monsoon / Intrep tech is the same). Just against warpins isn't a great idea either (due most players going for warpin hybrid > Monsoons). And of course the same counts for the Klingon - i doubt any decent Klingon player would go straight for Qaw'DuJ or Chargh spam in the first place, and if he does (cause he feels like being stupid), he can easily switch as well - never seen this, never done it myself vs. any good Dom player.
And against the "Dominion Escort Cruisers":
This won't work at all, against S2s it's plain suicide to build Breen cruiser.

What did Ray find out?
Personally i think the Myth has a lot of truth in it - the ship has quite a (too) specific role.

posted on November 30th, 2012, 8:34 am

What did Ray find out?
Personally i think the Myth has a lot of truth in it - the ship has quite a (too) specific role.

I'm not sure if it's changed in the last patch or two, but I played a tournament match with Ray and he rushed with Leavahls. Somehow nothing but me joking around and massing Breen Cruisers seemed to take them all down, even though at the time I believe the Leavahl had passives that gave them the edge over the Breen Cruiser. Could have been the range difference since the Cruisers could get a few shots off before Leavahls closed the distance. As you said though, a Romulan player could easily change their build at that point which is why I find it hard playing as the Dominion: the whole prototype system makes it virtually impossible to be flexible with builds because the resources and time it takes to make the prototype. This would be fine if the other races played like that, but everyone except the Borg can change their builds so fast. You pretty much have to hope the other player doesn't switch from monsoons to another ship once they realize you finished a prototype Intrepids are good against. Once you've invested in a prototype that's it and you're stuck for a long time. Feds, Klingons, and Romulans can change almost at will. Hopefully someone can break that myth for me.

The only thing Breen Cruisers always work against for me is taking out Regen Spheres. Against Romulans you can kite pretty well with them as long as you have Bugs too, but even that requires a lot of micro because of the firing arcs.