slightly different layout for your instant action games
Share and discuss your gameplay strategies.
posted on August 24th, 2011, 3:52 pm
So with the recent event of learning about control-e for in game map editor from myles, a new style of game play has grabbed my attention, which maybe others would also find appealing. i thought i might describe it.
in general, fleet ops seems to be played with a star base starting point, then you huddle your research stations around it, and get a couple yards up.
with map editor, i've instantly given my self the mining stations at my starbases' moons.
I also give my self everything else but with a catch. I spread out my stations quite a bit.
I look for a nebula of some sort to set up star fleet science. And an asteroid belt to set up star fleet engineering. I put star fleet command in a more remote area off to the edge of the map, within a fair reach of my starbase.
From here, I set up two antares yards, somewhere roughly centralized between my scattered research stations.
To finish it off, I place my highly prized third constructor somewhere out there in the map to help me along.
I'm playing towards the sense that you already own the sector, and you meet a new resistance of sorts. You have mostly everything at your disposal, no eraudi yard though, and you have to build to defend and maintain the star system.
I play into a bit, for instance, the first sighting of the enemy scout is no longer by your starbase, it seems quite often the scout finds one of my research stations first. So it would correlate to signals from your outer sectors about a new threat, or alien ship they've encountered. Soon they are attacked, and you have to respond.
I haven't given myself any ships to start with just yet. I start off with 4000 / 2000 now just for fleet making and tech up.
So far, I've kept it just against a single hard AI. I'm trying to see what the AI does with its scouting when it finds me all over the map all of a sudden. So it will take some getting used to, but yeah.
So that's the idea that I'm liking to play around with. Give yourself all your stations right off the start, but spread it out generously to make yourself defend everything. If you do happen to lose stuff, then rebuild it.
Gives a sort of illusion that you have more to lose and a higher need to defend when your already set up like that.
At the moment, I rush to chassis one and two, get a small fleet of sabers and intrepids, and put my three constructors to work building platforms. And since I've given myself SFC, I sort of wait for the AI scout to find me before using the warpin, and then place it near the station that gets first noticed.
The AI starts off kind of whacky, but when it gets to ship production, if you don't attack, it seems pretty able to attack you in a bunch of the areas...
so yeah, just food for thought. might add some realism or diversity to the AI instant action games.
in general, fleet ops seems to be played with a star base starting point, then you huddle your research stations around it, and get a couple yards up.
with map editor, i've instantly given my self the mining stations at my starbases' moons.
I also give my self everything else but with a catch. I spread out my stations quite a bit.
I look for a nebula of some sort to set up star fleet science. And an asteroid belt to set up star fleet engineering. I put star fleet command in a more remote area off to the edge of the map, within a fair reach of my starbase.
From here, I set up two antares yards, somewhere roughly centralized between my scattered research stations.
To finish it off, I place my highly prized third constructor somewhere out there in the map to help me along.
I'm playing towards the sense that you already own the sector, and you meet a new resistance of sorts. You have mostly everything at your disposal, no eraudi yard though, and you have to build to defend and maintain the star system.
I play into a bit, for instance, the first sighting of the enemy scout is no longer by your starbase, it seems quite often the scout finds one of my research stations first. So it would correlate to signals from your outer sectors about a new threat, or alien ship they've encountered. Soon they are attacked, and you have to respond.
I haven't given myself any ships to start with just yet. I start off with 4000 / 2000 now just for fleet making and tech up.
So far, I've kept it just against a single hard AI. I'm trying to see what the AI does with its scouting when it finds me all over the map all of a sudden. So it will take some getting used to, but yeah.
So that's the idea that I'm liking to play around with. Give yourself all your stations right off the start, but spread it out generously to make yourself defend everything. If you do happen to lose stuff, then rebuild it.
Gives a sort of illusion that you have more to lose and a higher need to defend when your already set up like that.
At the moment, I rush to chassis one and two, get a small fleet of sabers and intrepids, and put my three constructors to work building platforms. And since I've given myself SFC, I sort of wait for the AI scout to find me before using the warpin, and then place it near the station that gets first noticed.
The AI starts off kind of whacky, but when it gets to ship production, if you don't attack, it seems pretty able to attack you in a bunch of the areas...
so yeah, just food for thought. might add some realism or diversity to the AI instant action games.
posted on August 24th, 2011, 6:07 pm
That actually sounds really awesome. I never thought to do that. Now I'm gonna have to try it.
posted on August 24th, 2011, 6:56 pm
Last edited by godsvoice on August 24th, 2011, 7:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In latest test out, I changed a few things. I decided to give myself some ships. So I thought about what might be reasonable... and here is what I came up with. (of course, you can do whatever you'd like)
As I have a research station out by a nebula, I decided that some nebula science ships would be a fitting addition. Next to the station you put to a nebula, place 2 san francisco nebulas, and one yoyodyne (2 sense, and 1 tactical).
At the one near the asteroid belt, give yourself 1 rigel (potential pulse platform right there) and two intrepids (or two nova).
These seemed like deep space science vessels, and the intrepid just seemed fitting to me.
Next to your star fleet command, one defiant, or one sovereign, or one galaxy. Almost a DS9 scenario. 1 ship escort.
Optional, extra scout vessel somewhere on the map, but perhaps in a random spot where it is really far out of the way from where the AI is. Can still use it to scout better, if you so choose.
Finally at the starbase, I thought there would be any combination of 2 - 4 ships. 3 at least destroyer level, small or medium. The fourth could be warpin, eraudi class ship, or what have you. Even the a ship from another race! Perhaps a klingon vessel decided to drop by for some late night singing.
Along with the ship additions, I thought of some practical ... guidelines.
You can't use any of these ships for the first little while. You 'pretend' to not know you are dealing with an enemy AI. So, until you see a red dot letting you know there is an AI, all ships must stay at their post, guarding their stations.
You can not have them leave their post until you see a raiding party of at least 2-3 AI vessels.
Don't built anything from your antares yards until you are attacked, ... not scouted by AI, but attacked by AI. You were supposed to be in the sector for a routine science mission. Why are you spending resources on fleet development? You already have around a dozen ships at your disposal, don't be greedy!
or ... if you do scouting of your own. You can scout out, see that the enemy is amassing forces, or potentially, your scout is destroyed, so go ahead, build from antares yard. Warpins are always an option for whenever you'd like.
So.. what you can do is build mining stations and freighters, do some research. Take your scout (s) and practise your scouting. Build an Eraudi yard - although this is suspect, why would you build yourself an eraudi yard when you aren't even using your antares yards.
Anything else that makes the game seem more realistic or slightly more complicated in a fun way, feel free to add.
I chose that sort of science mission information collecting backwash, maybe yours is one where you have intel of enemies in the sector, so give yourself a head start on a small fleet, but no research stations. Whatever works.
Edit: for what you can do, build platforms along with mining stations and researching. even if you don't right a way turn them to phaser platforms, maybe still wait for the attack. but setting up several platforms might be fine. they could be either for potential defence, or future sensor relays. if built next to the research stations for instance. gives the station a better view with sensor relay. a couple platforms can't hurt
As I have a research station out by a nebula, I decided that some nebula science ships would be a fitting addition. Next to the station you put to a nebula, place 2 san francisco nebulas, and one yoyodyne (2 sense, and 1 tactical).
At the one near the asteroid belt, give yourself 1 rigel (potential pulse platform right there) and two intrepids (or two nova).
These seemed like deep space science vessels, and the intrepid just seemed fitting to me.
Next to your star fleet command, one defiant, or one sovereign, or one galaxy. Almost a DS9 scenario. 1 ship escort.
Optional, extra scout vessel somewhere on the map, but perhaps in a random spot where it is really far out of the way from where the AI is. Can still use it to scout better, if you so choose.
Finally at the starbase, I thought there would be any combination of 2 - 4 ships. 3 at least destroyer level, small or medium. The fourth could be warpin, eraudi class ship, or what have you. Even the a ship from another race! Perhaps a klingon vessel decided to drop by for some late night singing.
Along with the ship additions, I thought of some practical ... guidelines.
You can't use any of these ships for the first little while. You 'pretend' to not know you are dealing with an enemy AI. So, until you see a red dot letting you know there is an AI, all ships must stay at their post, guarding their stations.
You can not have them leave their post until you see a raiding party of at least 2-3 AI vessels.
Don't built anything from your antares yards until you are attacked, ... not scouted by AI, but attacked by AI. You were supposed to be in the sector for a routine science mission. Why are you spending resources on fleet development? You already have around a dozen ships at your disposal, don't be greedy!
or ... if you do scouting of your own. You can scout out, see that the enemy is amassing forces, or potentially, your scout is destroyed, so go ahead, build from antares yard. Warpins are always an option for whenever you'd like.
So.. what you can do is build mining stations and freighters, do some research. Take your scout (s) and practise your scouting. Build an Eraudi yard - although this is suspect, why would you build yourself an eraudi yard when you aren't even using your antares yards.
Anything else that makes the game seem more realistic or slightly more complicated in a fun way, feel free to add.
I chose that sort of science mission information collecting backwash, maybe yours is one where you have intel of enemies in the sector, so give yourself a head start on a small fleet, but no research stations. Whatever works.
Edit: for what you can do, build platforms along with mining stations and researching. even if you don't right a way turn them to phaser platforms, maybe still wait for the attack. but setting up several platforms might be fine. they could be either for potential defence, or future sensor relays. if built next to the research stations for instance. gives the station a better view with sensor relay. a couple platforms can't hurt
posted on August 24th, 2011, 6:58 pm
Thanks inawordyes, let me know what you come up with in your version.
The other thing is this is just from federation point of view.. still can create stuff for the other factions as well.
The other thing is this is just from federation point of view.. still can create stuff for the other factions as well.
posted on August 25th, 2011, 1:32 am
I've done this before, both in flops and other mods, and most of the time the AI doesnt do too well, due to the limitations in A2.
Another option to consider: Terrain.
Add a planet (or the background object for one in the case of flops) add some moons, add some dust clouds, astroids, etc, as if laying out a star system or part of one.
So your base gets choke points for defence, whereas the AI(s) start out in the outer reaches of the system, its more open, but they're more exposed, but on the other hand they're a lot harder to find.
I remember doing that in another mod, IIRC the map was 50kx50k, and aside from the frequent crashes due to the large size of the map, it was quite intersting because it took (without warp) 5-10 minutes for ships to cross a good part of the map, it made movements HAVE to be tactical, you want to expand ? You have combat ships, even a repair ship, go with the builder, maybe even a troop shop incase one of the smaller ships needs recrewing, and when you start setting up, you have to do it smart, because backup could never arrive in time.
Of course most of this would not work in flops, as there is no pop limit in flops. (mostly a good thing, however at times the lack of an option for one hurts the SP)
Another option to consider: Terrain.
Add a planet (or the background object for one in the case of flops) add some moons, add some dust clouds, astroids, etc, as if laying out a star system or part of one.
So your base gets choke points for defence, whereas the AI(s) start out in the outer reaches of the system, its more open, but they're more exposed, but on the other hand they're a lot harder to find.
I remember doing that in another mod, IIRC the map was 50kx50k, and aside from the frequent crashes due to the large size of the map, it was quite intersting because it took (without warp) 5-10 minutes for ships to cross a good part of the map, it made movements HAVE to be tactical, you want to expand ? You have combat ships, even a repair ship, go with the builder, maybe even a troop shop incase one of the smaller ships needs recrewing, and when you start setting up, you have to do it smart, because backup could never arrive in time.
Of course most of this would not work in flops, as there is no pop limit in flops. (mostly a good thing, however at times the lack of an option for one hurts the SP)
posted on August 25th, 2011, 3:39 am
Yeah, actually I just played a game that didn't go to well with dominion. Would the AIs do better than one another? Ie klingon do ok, but dominion doesn't?
Well, it is very new... so really only played a couple games this way.
The AI just didn't build ships... like any. I destroyed the scout, and waited. And waited. And waited.
Eventually, I took two e1s, and manually scouted out their whole base. They had plenty of expansions (2). They'd even reached large yards. But not a single bug, or s2, c11 out there. Nothing.
I avoided all phaser platforms and the star base, but I'm not sure what was happening.
Quite unfortunate, I tried to make it challenging. My science and engineering were not close to me. I was gonna give myself a run at it. Hoping I could hold em off with a half dozen ships, then spam some sabres and intrepids... but their ships never came. I was spread across the entire bottom half of the map a little frontier run.
For next time, I'm setting all ships to green, and might scale some parts of the plan back, give the AI a bigger edge, cause that time around it did absolutely nothing. Maybe after it scouted me, it new all to be hopeless.
Oh well, still fun to try things new things out.
Well, it is very new... so really only played a couple games this way.
The AI just didn't build ships... like any. I destroyed the scout, and waited. And waited. And waited.
Eventually, I took two e1s, and manually scouted out their whole base. They had plenty of expansions (2). They'd even reached large yards. But not a single bug, or s2, c11 out there. Nothing.
I avoided all phaser platforms and the star base, but I'm not sure what was happening.
Quite unfortunate, I tried to make it challenging. My science and engineering were not close to me. I was gonna give myself a run at it. Hoping I could hold em off with a half dozen ships, then spam some sabres and intrepids... but their ships never came. I was spread across the entire bottom half of the map a little frontier run.
For next time, I'm setting all ships to green, and might scale some parts of the plan back, give the AI a bigger edge, cause that time around it did absolutely nothing. Maybe after it scouted me, it new all to be hopeless.
Oh well, still fun to try things new things out.
posted on August 25th, 2011, 3:46 am
Ok thats REALLY weird, normally the Dominion are the strongest AI ingame due to certain balance issues.
posted on September 21st, 2011, 12:51 am
godsvoice wrote:The AI just didn't build ships... like any. I destroyed the scout, and waited. And waited. And waited.
Eventually, I took two e1s, and manually scouted out their whole base. They had plenty of expansions (2). They'd even reached large yards. But not a single bug, or s2, c11 out there. Nothing.
That happens to me in quite a few of the 'historical simulations' I've set up. Usually if that happens, youd need to have a friend play as them on the map. As far as I know though, the level creation features (like in EE & Starcraft, where you can set AI difficulty and behavior) don't exist in the map editor yet, so I've been unable to make my maps work properly on their own without time-consuming modding
Tok`ra wrote:Ok thats REALLY weird, normally the Dominion are the strongest AI ingame due to certain balance issues.
I'd say they're 2nd strongest, Romulans are FAR worse; whenever I do matches with alot of AI (on both small AND large maps) if I sit back and do nothing, they wipe out EVERYTHING else and then go after me in force. Its mainly due to the way AI's spam build and how quickly Romulans can get battleships.
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