monsoon/intrepid opening
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posted on May 4th, 2010, 5:00 pm
Last edited by tom on May 4th, 2010, 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi all,
the new patch is out
and from the first glance I like the balance it brings. So in order to provoke some discussion I would like to present this little strat. This is only the first sketch, will need some work but I would like to hear what the community thinks about it.
[align=center]General idea[/align]
Since the feds got some nerf and cant just tech straight to warpin without dieing (maybe
) this strat offers a nice transition to warpin from a good harassment start.
The goal is how to get warpin without dieing. Since monsoon has 140 speed and is durable it is a great harassment tool but wont win you a game. My first thought was that I want to start with monsoon, apply early pressure and then transition to free fed ships that all love so much.
It should work more or less against all races and is quite good vs cloaking races and works better with mayson (def bonus for monsoon) but is valid for both.
[align=center]Build order[/align]
starbase: queue 3 miners -> 1st & 2nd for dil, 3rd for trit (why not 4? no need for 4th and extra 120 dil will let you build def platform faster)
1st constructor: starfleet engineering -> yard -> mining station for trit -> def platform near trit
2nd constructor: mining station for dil -> yard -> def platform near dil -> hide it near 1st expansion
[align=center]Execution[/align]
After ur first constructor finishes starfleet engineering start 1st chassis. Both yards should finish just when 1st chassis ends researching. Queue 3 monsoons in each yard. With first 2 monsoons go to check enemy expansion. Continue pressure and try to stop enemy expansion from going up or kill all miners. It is very important not to lose any monsoons early. They have high durability and are fast so there is no reason for losing them. If your enemy starts building turrets at the expansion try to harass main. If he tries to defend expansion with ships split your forces and move in and out in both main and expansion. If he splits his fleet, join yours and attack.
when you have 6 monsoons build starfleet science and research proximity photon torpedo, then queue 2 more monsoons for the total of 8. Then build starfleet command. Right after starfleet command starts build mining station at your expansion and queue miners in starbase (1st goes for trit at your main) and 3 canaverals in 1st yard and monsoons/intrepids in 2nd yard. Expansion should finish the same time starfleet command does so in case of an attack call in ships to defend. If there is no attack reinforce monsoons and win.
[align=center]Variations[/align]
If playing against borg instead of monsoons build intrepids and skip def platforms.
Comments welcome.
the new patch is out
and from the first glance I like the balance it brings. So in order to provoke some discussion I would like to present this little strat. This is only the first sketch, will need some work but I would like to hear what the community thinks about it.[align=center]General idea[/align]
Since the feds got some nerf and cant just tech straight to warpin without dieing (maybe
) this strat offers a nice transition to warpin from a good harassment start.The goal is how to get warpin without dieing. Since monsoon has 140 speed and is durable it is a great harassment tool but wont win you a game. My first thought was that I want to start with monsoon, apply early pressure and then transition to free fed ships that all love so much.
It should work more or less against all races and is quite good vs cloaking races and works better with mayson (def bonus for monsoon) but is valid for both.
[align=center]Build order[/align]
starbase: queue 3 miners -> 1st & 2nd for dil, 3rd for trit (why not 4? no need for 4th and extra 120 dil will let you build def platform faster)
1st constructor: starfleet engineering -> yard -> mining station for trit -> def platform near trit
2nd constructor: mining station for dil -> yard -> def platform near dil -> hide it near 1st expansion
[align=center]Execution[/align]
After ur first constructor finishes starfleet engineering start 1st chassis. Both yards should finish just when 1st chassis ends researching. Queue 3 monsoons in each yard. With first 2 monsoons go to check enemy expansion. Continue pressure and try to stop enemy expansion from going up or kill all miners. It is very important not to lose any monsoons early. They have high durability and are fast so there is no reason for losing them. If your enemy starts building turrets at the expansion try to harass main. If he tries to defend expansion with ships split your forces and move in and out in both main and expansion. If he splits his fleet, join yours and attack.
when you have 6 monsoons build starfleet science and research proximity photon torpedo, then queue 2 more monsoons for the total of 8. Then build starfleet command. Right after starfleet command starts build mining station at your expansion and queue miners in starbase (1st goes for trit at your main) and 3 canaverals in 1st yard and monsoons/intrepids in 2nd yard. Expansion should finish the same time starfleet command does so in case of an attack call in ships to defend. If there is no attack reinforce monsoons and win
.[align=center]Variations[/align]
If playing against borg instead of monsoons build intrepids and skip def platforms.
Comments welcome.
posted on May 4th, 2010, 5:57 pm
Nice analysis, Tom. 
One thing I would change is building the second yard at your expansion. That way, defending ships can simply repair on the spot, and really foil harassment, even if outnumbered. I'm seeing a lot of possibilities for openings, especially for Mayson. For example, you can actually saber spam from 2 yards, get the science station and get hyper impulse, then build some norways or canverals when you have the tritanium. In larger games (not 1v1), a more defensive oriented player could do 1 yard, turrets at all expansions, and tech up to warp in. I like how you can't warp in inside of 3 minutes with mayson, and the new turrets look fun and cool. I agree that the balancing is much better. It'll be interesting to see how things play out.
One thing I would change is building the second yard at your expansion. That way, defending ships can simply repair on the spot, and really foil harassment, even if outnumbered. I'm seeing a lot of possibilities for openings, especially for Mayson. For example, you can actually saber spam from 2 yards, get the science station and get hyper impulse, then build some norways or canverals when you have the tritanium. In larger games (not 1v1), a more defensive oriented player could do 1 yard, turrets at all expansions, and tech up to warp in. I like how you can't warp in inside of 3 minutes with mayson, and the new turrets look fun and cool. I agree that the balancing is much better. It'll be interesting to see how things play out.
posted on May 4th, 2010, 8:29 pm
Last edited by tom on May 4th, 2010, 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
there is no expansion Mal . u play of 1 base until starfleet command and u need 2 yards for early pressure. at 5:30 klingons can have 2 b'rels & 3 kvort's so 1 yard just wont cut it.
I have saber opening next, just needs more tuning
. u play of 1 base until starfleet command and u need 2 yards for early pressure. at 5:30 klingons can have 2 b'rels & 3 kvort's so 1 yard just wont cut it.I have saber opening next, just needs more tuning
posted on May 4th, 2010, 9:46 pm
I see what you're saying, but I'm not talking about one yard. You build a second yard very early at the expansion before even expansion mining stations, and can even go Intrepids instead of monsoons, so you get more power. It still provides the early pressure, and you get 2 moon pairs out of the deal. In addition, it's possible to save your miners by sending them to the expansion yard and any defenders basically become invincible, so harassment is easily stopped.
Not saying your way isn't valid. Hell, the patch has only been out for a day and a half
, but this is another way to go about it if you want an early expansion. 
Not saying your way isn't valid. Hell, the patch has only been out for a day and a half
, but this is another way to go about it if you want an early expansion. posted on May 4th, 2010, 10:19 pm
posted on May 4th, 2010, 10:24 pm
posted on May 4th, 2010, 11:24 pm
Last edited by tom on May 4th, 2010, 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
it is for harassment not fighting, besides it does beat most early game ships costwise.
lets do v simple math: dil+trit / off+def and sup / off+def
monsoon = 12.71/0.31
bug = 11.8/1.12
escort = 10.16/0.81
b'rel = 14.92/0.42
k'vort = 15.20/0.34
rhienn = 19.11/0.59
shrike = 18.77/0.58
leahval = 24.39/0.47
griffin = 17.73/0.56
this silly math shows the cost of a single point for off+def. its not perfect but sill, with mayson monsoon cost drops to 11.62/0.28. thats even better then the bug dil+trit-wise. i dont know what monsoon suppose to be good against, i only know what i see. monsoon gives you most guns for cheapest price and 140 speed. sure there is no point in fighting k'vorts/leahvals/griffins but thats the beauty of this strat (imo of course). u open monsoon -> stop ur opponents exp and force him to go cruisers -> transition to warpin -> win. maybe not that simple but thats the idea. with 1 base and def platforms u r safe from harassment (more or less).
special ability makes monsoon even better against destroyers and allows miner sniping. it is quite cheap and this build is timed so u can afford it. monsoon costs only 97 trit.
this is by no mean an instant win. it is not even polished yet
as the patch has been out for 1 day. it focuses on abusing feds strengths, the ones i was able to spot so far, as much as possible (monsoon speed and cost, turret system and warpin).
lets do v simple math: dil+trit / off+def and sup / off+def
monsoon = 12.71/0.31
bug = 11.8/1.12
escort = 10.16/0.81
b'rel = 14.92/0.42
k'vort = 15.20/0.34
rhienn = 19.11/0.59
shrike = 18.77/0.58
leahval = 24.39/0.47
griffin = 17.73/0.56
this silly math shows the cost of a single point for off+def. its not perfect but sill, with mayson monsoon cost drops to 11.62/0.28. thats even better then the bug dil+trit-wise. i dont know what monsoon suppose to be good against, i only know what i see. monsoon gives you most guns for cheapest price and 140 speed. sure there is no point in fighting k'vorts/leahvals/griffins but thats the beauty of this strat (imo of course). u open monsoon -> stop ur opponents exp and force him to go cruisers -> transition to warpin -> win. maybe not that simple but thats the idea. with 1 base and def platforms u r safe from harassment (more or less).
special ability makes monsoon even better against destroyers and allows miner sniping. it is quite cheap and this build is timed so u can afford it. monsoon costs only 97 trit.
this is by no mean an instant win. it is not even polished yet
as the patch has been out for 1 day. it focuses on abusing feds strengths, the ones i was able to spot so far, as much as possible (monsoon speed and cost, turret system and warpin).posted on May 4th, 2010, 11:30 pm
Many early game vessels are short range - the Monsoon does 10% less damage to short range ships
Not sure if you did it on purpose but you missed Scout Cube, Dodecagon, Assimilator, K'beajQ, B-8 WarFrigate, Generix+refits.
Not sure if you did it on purpose but you missed Scout Cube, Dodecagon, Assimilator, K'beajQ, B-8 WarFrigate, Generix+refits.
posted on May 4th, 2010, 11:39 pm
i know that but it doesnt matter.
K'beajQ is a good response from a klingon player but it has 120 speed so it doesnt mean my harassment stops or that i lose the game.
generix/war frigate to late too little.
against the bord I would try intrepids. I havent yet but will in time. I mentioned that in my 1st post.
K'beajQ is a good response from a klingon player but it has 120 speed so it doesnt mean my harassment stops or that i lose the game.
generix/war frigate
to late too little.against the bord I would try intrepids. I havent yet but will in time. I mentioned that in my 1st post.
posted on May 4th, 2010, 11:55 pm
You can start off with Generix and War Frigate immediately, though Monsoon does a fairly good job countering War Frigate of course, it still will annihilate your miners
If it works for you though, I'm happy you have something to play with.
If it works for you though, I'm happy you have something to play with.
posted on May 5th, 2010, 12:26 am
Sounds like a cool build, Tom .
I'm excited about the new patch because I feel that there is no longer a need for the 1 uber build that you MUST go or lose.
Nice job throwin it out there. Good to see Monsoons getting some love. I think what Mal was saying is that having a builder move quickly to the exp and set up the second yard there gives your exp much more staying power because your builder can repair constantly and avoid destruction from a small raiding party until you can reinforce it.
He did that to me last night and it worked quite well.
.I'm excited about the new patch because I feel that there is no longer a need for the 1 uber build that you MUST go or lose.
Nice job throwin it out there
. Good to see Monsoons getting some love. I think what Mal was saying is that having a builder move quickly to the exp and set up the second yard there gives your exp much more staying power because your builder can repair constantly and avoid destruction from a small raiding party until you can reinforce it.He did that to me last night and it worked quite well
.posted on May 5th, 2010, 1:14 am
2nd yard at exp was popular even b4 i got here
understand that there is no expansion. i dont want to build my yard at exp because i will have to take care of ships attacking it and i dont want to do it. i want all my ships harassing. turrets, if needed, and ships leaving the yards will help at my main. if my opponent sets up a running expansion i probably lost so i need all ships harassing
understand that there is no expansion. i dont want to build my yard at exp because i will have to take care of ships attacking it and i dont want to do it. i want all my ships harassing. turrets, if needed, and ships leaving the yards will help at my main. if my opponent sets up a running expansion i probably lost so i need all ships harassing
posted on May 5th, 2010, 5:19 am
posted on May 5th, 2010, 6:19 am
Dircome wrote:so you are trying to win the game before your opponent builds a second expansion. Actually this is what catty did to me earlier.
Hmmm..... *scratches chin*... How very IIIIIINteresting ...
posted on May 5th, 2010, 7:35 am
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