is my stratgy that flawed

posted on June 21st, 2009, 1:56 am

i have played armada 2 for quit some time and even on the highest difficulty i have never lost this badly!! when i seen armada fleet operations i thought it would be a change and a good challenge but this is ridiculous!
playing online multi player is not my bag.

in armada 2 just replaying the different  missions as different races and varying difficulties was good for awhile but got boring.
then i started installing and modding ships but that even got to the point where i overpowered any race i played and all the fun was gone.

in fleet operations my preferred choice is human against the AI because as i stated before im not into online multi player gaming but no matter what settings i use or what strategies i use i get my A-- wiped!!
is fleet operations geared more for multi player game play? 

any help or advise will be greatly appretiated   

posted on June 21st, 2009, 2:42 am

Most RTS games are designed to be played human vs human: the AI afterall is designed to imitate the human player. All AI designers dream to make the AI comparable to a humans ability.

That being said, the Merciless AI is supposed to be difficult. Maybe trying on Normal or Hard would satisfy your desire?

posted on June 21st, 2009, 8:31 am

the merciless ai cheats like hell and builds fully upgraded units, that's why it's almost impossible to beat. I can only beat him with the Romulans because they have the shield rechargers on the Generix support refit.

posted on June 21st, 2009, 9:45 am

LoL the merciless AI actually got a downgrade from the previous version, its easier to beat now
So dont complain, and just practice more

posted on June 21st, 2009, 10:09 am

Depending on what race you play depends on the tactic(avatar too). obvisously you need to expand as much as possible early without sacrificing defense. Also unlike amarda 2 you cant win by building the biggest baddest ship early on. 80% of most games i rarely use anything but the first yard available, make sure you resarch support ship abilities as they will make a massive difference and dont sit on your hands for 2 hours building up a fleet, get on the offensive asap destoying mines, building your own there. Also AI will always build shipyards next too mines as they might aswell have infinite resources they'll build flat out so agian offensive offensive offensive. o and Merciless borg you have no chance so dont even try it

Good luck and enjoy fleetops!

posted on June 21st, 2009, 12:30 pm

well.. if you lose against the normal AI (or easy, depending on the version you played), it is flawed that bad.

maybe with a lil explaination of your chosen faction, playstyle and buildqueue we could help you..

[cobratwo]

posted on June 21st, 2009, 6:46 pm

Last edited by cobratwo on June 21st, 2009, 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

thanks for all the responses
i guess i should have mentioned the races i have been playing.
since i just installed fleet operations i have been keeping it simple.
i have been playing as the federation against the romulans, Borg, Klingon's, and the federation as opponents set as normal.
i start out as building mining facilities on each moon with 2 miners each then build the Antares shipyard then the engineering facility.
while building the first engineering facility i start building sabers.

once i have the engineering facility i start on the science facility then the command facility.
then i start upgrading to build the advanced ships and here is where i start losing BADLY.
my resources are depleted by now and i wind up waiting and as im waiting i get hammered by my opponent.


NOTE: i did win one last night by building all of the above but i stopped at the command station and just warped in a few ships just to hold me over till i could build up my resources to upgrade to more advanced ships and my  shields and weapons.
after that it was just a matter of time!!

thanks again for all the advice and i guess ill just keep at it and who knows maybe one day i will decide to try this online and meet one of you for a game and see how i make out.

posted on June 21st, 2009, 7:32 pm

Don't use Borg AI until you're confident in your skills.  The way the AI cheats makes Borg AI much stronger than all the others.

posted on June 21st, 2009, 9:22 pm

When using the Federation against the AI, I tend to follow a pretty tight pattern for developing. I choose Mason as my avatar.

I start by immediately setting my Outpost AI to High Special Autonomy and then move both construction ships to build one mining base each around the nearest couple of moons. I have my starbase producing 2 miners per moon and I have that little Venture shuttle out searching for more moons.

Once the first two mining bases are complete I move both construction ship to the next two moons. I then start producing my third and fourth mining bases and extend the build queue at my main base to reflect this change.

By now I will more than likely be running with 2 dilithium and 2 metal moons fully kitted out with 2-3 miners (3 miners is a little excessive but I think it does make a tiny bit of a difference over 2 miners). I will now use one of my constructors to start to produce a forward base consisting of a small shipyard and an outpost if I can afford it whilst the other one finds and constructs mining bases at moons 5 and 6. Construction will be interspersed with a generous number of blank defense turrets.

Whilst these 6 moons are kitted out with 2-3 miners, I'll then produce both science stations at my starting site and the Eraudi Yard at my forward base. Once the Eraudi Yard is done, I'll upgrade all my blank defense turrets to use quantum torpedoes and research the Reorganise Defense ability. I will also produce a third constructor to build defense turrets at weaker sites and build Starfleet Command to start warping in Decents. This is the defining point because, if the enemy attacks with force before those quantum turrets are up, then I'm toast. Once the torps are set up, then they are toast.

By this point I will have a strong economy and very high defence but my only ships will be Decents my building options will have low offensive strength. With my defenses strengthened, I'll now beeline it through the tech tree and start building up a force. I'll also extend my shipyards and look for moons 7 and 8 to cope with the economic strain. The rest consists of much destruction until the end.



That's pretty much my Federation strategy against the AI and it seems to work in general. You couldn't use that online though as there is too much emphasis on defense and humans tend to be a bit more unpredictable than the AI.

posted on June 21st, 2009, 10:04 pm

I always follow a slightly different strategy.
But I always play with double Recource

Mayson
First Coustrucktor will build the frist two mines while the second will build the fists shipyard. And then a second one while the first one is reserching the Hyper Impulse Drive.
The reserch is mostly ready when the second yard is ready. Both will produce Sabers.
At this time the minebuilder is on the way to the second moonset while the yardbuilder builds both reserchstations and then the warpin.
Immediately I will start to reserch the first and second shipreserch.
If the second is ready I will cancel the Sabers and start to build akiras.
Arround 6 to 10 Sabers should be ready and the first warpin should be there.
This construktor will now build mines or defensstations at the mines.
The Starbase will build one miner for every moon in the near of the station, then a third construktor and again miners and construktors.
Mostly there are enough recources to reserch the first stepp of the weapons or the first stepp of the shields

I noticed, that a moon is harvest 90 to 100% of the time by 2 miners if the minenigstation is at the side of the moon.
If it is below above the moon it will take 3 miners.

I build the big yards when my economy is running.

[KL0K]

posted on June 21st, 2009, 11:41 pm

Last edited by KL0K on June 21st, 2009, 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hm,

mine is very different to the strats already posted here:
i play with the avatar risner most of the time.

my 1st constructor is directly building the yard,
the second goes for dilitium moon building a mining station and putting up 4 miners in the buildqueue of the outpost. while i micro the scout around to find another moon set (if i dont even know where one is)
while the yard is done imediatly starting construction of a few sabres and building up the first tech-station to get lvl 2 and 3 chassis.
the other constructor is putting up the other mining station on tritanium. and after that is done sending it out to the second moonset somewhere, while building more miners. and the second tech-building
then a caneveral class upgraded with sensorblackout, since that can keep your small ships alive, and it should be around the time where you can build your first akiras. which will last a bit longer.
by the way, this is the reason why i build the dilitium first, cause this strat is more dil. based. you might find it better the other way around or like the others explained it, depending on playstyle and race etc.

and thats the point wheres its map-decided, if its for example a small 1on1 map like the passage (which is my suggestion for training like this) with one choke point i send all my ships there to intercept incoming forces, and got enough time to build up all the other stuff, without caring much about what to build next... specially when i build the starfleet command thing and send reinforcements around.
or keeping them around somewhere in the middle of both moonsets to react against harrassment, and relate more on the smaller ships.
but before that, i dont even start thinking about building the 2nd yard. and by the time and with a lil micro i got a full fleet of sabres, 1-2 caneveral and a bunch of akiras, prolly with a few vets inbetween.
this can change in online matches, since many try to rush and harrass with small ships, but i think against the AI it should work, cause building more then one steals needed ressources in my opinion which could be used for something else, like a shipupgrade or a ship itself.

and when i build the antares yard, first thing is a remore. i saw many ppl going for excellsior2 first, but the fully upgraded remore is a nasty backup ship and mixed with veteran akiras quite badass. plus support for existing ships is more important at that point, cause the AI will prolly send in well mixed fleets, which means support ship = overall better performance of existing ones, instead of one highend, that can get shot to pieces cause its outnumbered,

anyways, this is just a lil insight, like the other 2. and maybe you find one of the others more usefull for yourself. its just some trial n error here like every RTS, till you got enough experience to comeup with your own.

but on a sidenote:
maybe its easier if you try out another race, since they all of them are a bit different (klings pump out small ships, roms come in with refits of all sorts, dominion with their prototypes etc)

posted on June 23rd, 2009, 12:17 am

Fleet ops has more depth than armada. It's worth reading Dom's guide at some point, but in Fleet Ops there's all kinds of things you can do that in Armada simply wouldn't have existed. Range is a good example, since sabres have long range which in some cases can give them am advantage over cruisers.

Also, you absolutely *need* to research your specials. Hyper impulse allows you to run and gun with sabres, proximity torps gives you an anti destroyer edge, if you want to kill that mine you'll *need* intrepids, and akiras will last forever in a battle if they're using defensive patterns.

With the AI, there are two things to remember, and they've already been said, but I'll underline them here:

*Avoid the Borg (the AI has a preset build order and their cruisers are Assims and their BB's are cubes. Obviously a cube >> a soverign, but the build order fails to differenciate this.)

*With the AI, unless you've got mega defense spam, you need to go on the offensive. Don't let it expand (it doesn't need the resources since it cheats, but *boy*, you do.), don't let it get within hitting distance of your weaker ships. If you start to get hit on your mining, for gods sakes make your freighters run away. Don't let the AI amass a fleet. If need be suicide a sabre to lure that "large but managable" fleet into destruction before it becomes an "ohmygod unstoppable force". Also, if it's hitting your ally, make sure you distract it.



Also, to give you a grasp of the AI's abilities, try playing 1v1 with the computer. It's a little more boring, but may very well help you understand how it operates.

posted on June 23rd, 2009, 3:01 am

i have been trying a few different strategies that some have suggested and came up with my own that i am comfortable with.
i haven't played anything but one on one but as i stated i am new to this version.

i have beat the romulans,federation,klingons and the dominion on hard but have yet to try the borg on hard. i have beaten the borg on normal but it was touch and go there for awhile !

as for playing as another race i have not mastered the different federation ships and their best combinations yet so for now i will stick with the federation.

i was not trying to compare armada 2 to fleet ops i just wanted to make it known that i was no stranger to the game play.
the graphics on fleet ops are FANTASTIC!!!! one thing i did notice while playing fleet ops is when you have fighters,cruisers or battle ships around say a moon with miners and construction ships and you need to select everything but the miners and construction ship you can without having them
being caught up with the fighting ships unlike armada 2. 

i do appreciate all the different comments everyone has
 

posted on June 23rd, 2009, 6:00 am

cool to hear that you get a foot in 

and yeah, the borg can give a headache while playing against them, specially on hard and merciless with all their specials (to be honest, merciless let me scream at my monitor sometimes ).. nanites shredder small ships to pieces, devastating attack kills shields in one shot and the highenergy slicer kills the hull pretty fast like the nanites do on small ships.. so, killing their expansions is a must, otherwise you get overwhelmed after a certain ammount of time.

by the way, same goes for the dominion merciless aswell, otherwise your base get attacked by 50+ battleships (v-13 and breen), lol.