General Anti-borg Strategy (3.1)

posted on March 13th, 2010, 4:46 pm

After looking through the threads, I've found one or two new ideas to try. This topic is geared against the AI, but I imagine it would help players against  PVP as well.

I'm still finding the same problem... in 3.1x, the Borg are pretty much sweeping me from all but the smallest of maps. It's hard to scout out their resource points because the AI seems to enjoy just dropping their little resource processors next to a moon and then leaving, and by the time you can find a base with an actual constructor making enemy units, there are waves of assimilators and spheres, and even cubes sweeping down upon you.

Using a Serkas- or a Caravel- heavy fleet can help a bit, or using the Romulans with the better grade of turrets, but serkas and caravel are very fragile and can be cut through pretty easily once an enemy fleet gets on the move. And of course the turrets can only hold off an enemy armada so long without having a fleet nearby for backup.
==The caravel's blackout function helps a little, especially if the borg are favouring torpedo fit-outs to their ships, but it has not nearly as much an effect on beam ships it seems. mixing Caravel's with Nomads makes a helpful one-two punch, but the nomads seem to be cut down quickly by beam heavy-ships like spheres. Maybe Caravels with another long rage ship like Excelsiors?
==The Serkas have that nasty habit of collateral damage and friendly fire, especially if you survive long enough into the game to get one with mixed tech. (and of course they are expensive and time consuming) and they're one of the most fragile ships in the game once the slow moving borg get into firing range. it takes a lot of micromanaging to keep them just ahead of borg weapons but keep their own torpedos firing. makes me long for stock Armada's clover attack pattern to keep my own ships moving instead of getting wasted by friendly fire.

So, in 3.1x, what have you found useful to combat the Borg? I have a good handle on most other races, but when playing AS the Borg I win easily, and when playing against them, unless I'm on a tiny map, I get swept.

posted on March 13th, 2010, 4:57 pm

  Tech up to battleships. Destroyers and small cruisers are easy prey for borg ships. So make battleships and have them repaired when are damaged.

posted on March 13th, 2010, 4:59 pm

First:  What are Nomads?  Do you mean Norways?  A Nomad is a person with no permanent home .

2nd:  Yes, Sensor Blackout reduces weapons fire rates by 35% regardless of weapon type.

3rd:  Best against Borg are groups of baseline vessels like Akiras, Intrepids for Fed.  Susa, KbeajQ, Vorcha, and Sang against large Borg vessels for Klingon while Kvorts and KbeajQ mop up small vessels nicely.  Rommies have the hardest time, but Leahvals are really the end-all way to destroy Borg until the patch comes out.  Dominion should use a good mix of Bombers and Bugs with Ketracel white from S-2's.  For other Borg it's Adaptors all the way!


Ninja'd by Galefury.  To be honest I wouldn't tech up to bships.  Borg can have a Sphere out in about 7 minutes.  You won't get your own battleships in sufficient numbers to handle that.  Leahvals for Rommies ftw.

posted on March 13th, 2010, 7:15 pm

Yeah, little ships are the way to go.  Swarming the Borg with a bunch of fast, little ships will mean they can't out dps your fleet.  The main thing you want to look at are the passives.  The borg don't have ranged passives, which actually puts them at a disadvantage.  For example, the autonomous AI passive reduces damage taken by medium ranged vessels by over a third.  A standard sphere does 66 damage, but Intrepids and bugs only take 40 damage per hit.  That's huge!


So my take on ship building is that you should build ships that have the passives that counter the borg ships you face.  Mediums like spheres and cubes should see a lot of autonomous AI or Single Stage Energy Conduits.  Long ranged ships should see high density shield generators or TWS (though beware of short ranged vessels when using TWS)

My picks for ships against the borg are Intrepids for the federation.  Or monsoons if you face a lot of assims and diamonds.  Also, remember those repair ships, as they can save you.  If you do go battleships, then defiant spam, as it's TWS is backed up with ablative armor, so it's great against assims and diamonds, and does not have a weakness against scubes.  Also, critical shot will help disable the heaviest ship you encounter while you trash the small ones.

The romulan leahval will definitely chew up any borg ship it meets.  It's important to get all the tech for the ship, as advanced energy reeling gives a much needed offensive and defensive boost.  Also, energy reeling increases damage to short ranged vessels, in addition to having a passive.  Don't forget to have a strong core of generix support refits with their plasma torpedo disabling the stronger borg ships.  You can top off the shields of your leahvals as well.

Pretty much any Dominion ship will do well against the borg, as almost all of them do beams and/or torpedoes.  Bugs are essential against mediums, s-2s increase your effectiveness, bombers do great against small and decent against mediums like spheres, just keep them at maximum range.  The dominion can make use of the B5 battle cruiser and the C-17.  Both are great against the borg becauese of the increase in dps and fighter screen the b5 provides and the C-17's artillery beam.  You can also spam breen cruisers if you like as well.  They're great against pretty much everything the borg can throw at you.

The Klingons could pretty much Kvort spam to win.

posted on March 14th, 2010, 3:33 pm

Yes, I meant Norways I chat in a room called Nomad, so I cross the words up.

Well, flood with smaller units huh? That runs counter to my normal tactics of favouring a moderate mix of smaller and heavier vessels, which might explain why I'm not having the best results Re:Borg. One thing I do like about the borg when using my strategy though, is that since they have no shields attribute, if you can get together a fleet of medium ships early on, you can easily beam-in attack one of their constructors no matter what race you use.

What about others? Any further strategies?

posted on March 14th, 2010, 4:54 pm

Yes, I meant Norways I chat in a room called Nomad, so I cross the words up.

Well, flood with smaller units huh? That runs counter to my normal tactics of favouring a moderate mix of smaller and heavier vessels, which might explain why I'm not having the best results Re:Borg. One thing I do like about the borg when using my strategy though, is that since they have no shields attribute, if you can get together a fleet of medium ships early on, you can easily beam-in attack one of their constructors no matter what race you use.

What about others? Any further strategies?

A general rule of thumb for FO has always been "When in doubt, spam "
Bigger ships have often struggled in the balancing department for a long time, sometimes being virtually useless all together.

posted on March 15th, 2010, 12:20 am

I've definitely found that some of the heavier ships are a bit "not as advertised" but they still have their uses; tossing just one or two classic warbirds in amongst your other ships for their stealth field really can boost your defense numbers. The same with the Sovy's engine nuker.

posted on March 15th, 2010, 1:22 am

More the idea about keeping with small ships isn't because large vessels are useless (which most are not - save for your hugely expensive Romulan warbirds), but because you don't want to put all your eggs in one basket against the Borg. It's about maintaining a careful balance of firepower spread over units, with durability. Too small and your units are going to get creamed before being able to retreat (aka, Rhienns, B'rels, ...sometimes Bugs etc), too large and you've most likely teched too fast to be able to field adequate units to kill that Sphere before it can retreat. The larger vessels are more efficient, but if you do not maintain enough smaller vessels, you are just going to get hammered without being able to retreat and repair. Small ships escort the large ones, and thus naturally outnumber them.

By the way Eorapter, could you please reduce the size of your signature - it's larger than your posts in every case, and quite a bit distracting (as well as much too large in regard to forum rules) 

posted on March 15th, 2010, 1:43 am

Funny, in 3.08, I have found the borg to be incredibly weak, especially in PVP matches.  I get hit by a swarm of B'rels or a fed warp in by the time I can build just one scout cube.  The build times for the borg are simply too long in early game.  If you rush the borg, they have nowhere close to adequate defence.  Exception: The AI does not have this problem as it build 5 times faster than a human, for 1/10 the resource costs.  This is no exaggeration, you can check the file that affects the multipliers as I did.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on March 15th, 2010, 1:53 am

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on March 15th, 2010, 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

I assume you are referring to 3.1.1? (there is no 3.08 or 3.0.8 for that matter)

Would you care to play a game with me online? It shouldn't be too hard to deal with rushes against the Borg - you can quite easily get out about 2 Scout Cubes and 2 Probes by the time a Warp-In comes.

EDIT: clarification. Against Mayson you can get out 1 Scube and 1 Probe by the time Warp-In is ready. The other two come in less than a minute. Against Risner you can get out all four units by the time Warp-In is ready 

posted on March 15th, 2010, 2:40 am

anti borg stratagy is so easy,

Step 1 get janeway to come from the future with weapons that take out borg in about one shot,

Step 2 kill borg

posted on March 17th, 2010, 5:20 pm

All right, played a game last night on the Naleri Expedition map, as the Feds, and the randomly assigned foes were 3 total, two borg and one klingon. I ground it out and was victorious, but I almost got hosed a few times by the borg late game.

I started by slamming out  a mix of Sabers, Monsoon's, and Intrepids early, and then later shifting to a mix of intrepids, ex2's, Norways, Remore's, with a smattering of Defiants, Sovy's, and Descent's in there. (monsoons and sabers seem to get smoked early on in the game vs most opponents, so I tend to shift away from them early-mid game) this did very well in hunting down assembler's and miners early in the game.

On such a big map, though, I couldn't leave my fleets that far afield too long though before returning for repairs, and all my foes managed to keep grinding along with me. Those damnable Cubes just hung around and hung around no matter what I threw at them later; up to my Fleet#1 which held three descents that should crunch heavy ships and bases with torpedos (the veteran rank bonus to starfleet command) ... If one borg foe hadn't had to keep passing by the other to get to my controlled space, causing them to constantly skirmish each other as often as me, I might not have prevailed. I managed to grind them down by spamming Remore's and ex2's late game, but it would take two whole fleets to crunch each cube it seemed, which got damned expensive, even with six moon pairs firmly under my control, and two miners to each moon.

There has to be an easier way? Defiant's and Sovy's take forever and a day to build and Akira's, for me at least, seem to get toasted almost as easily as those monsoons and saber's late game.  So, since there are no nebulae on Naleri (and a few other maps) to hide and/or regen your ships, what's a good strategy for squishing Cubes? they shrug off turrets and starbases, and the tactical Cubes... well yeah...

posted on March 17th, 2010, 8:16 pm

Why don't you play online with us (or perhaps look at the guide) - that should give you an idea of some nice fleet composition and some of the micromanagement techniques

posted on April 21st, 2010, 2:25 am

One thing I'll add, at least for Martok.  If you can get them together before you get creamed, a group of Negh'var will eat Borg ships alive.  That's without using overload.  Let them hurl their overloads at probes, scubes, and detectors to get them out of your face while the Negh'var exploit their Beam/Megatorp/Assault Cannon armament and very durable hulls.

It's like the empire designed the Negh'var to kick Borg ass.

posted on April 21st, 2010, 6:04 am

Yandoman has got a really good video on how to beat a Borg Mercy AI.
I usally play as martok and build a nice fleet of susa, kvorts, and kbea'Qs. I have no problems beating the borg (unless a human is in control)