Federation ships, mixed tech?
posted on April 29th, 2009, 2:59 am
Heya all, just played a game against 3 hard computers FFA. Have to say for once didn't get jumped by every computer which was refreshing. Knowing i was to be on the defence i played Mayson because of his somewhat capable torpedo turrets and the detection grid sensors against klingons and romulans.
Early on i spammed pretty much sabres. They seem excellent ships and with hyper impulse they are very fast with good phaser range. Useful for hit and fade tactics and for early strikes on supplies. I don't know if that stands against a human, i suspect it does just a bit more difficult to manage because a human opponent isn't quite so stupid.
About 10 minutes in i dropped down a fleet command warp in, allowing me to cripple the dominion computer and capture a klingon construction unit. I quickly jumped that to a safe spot build a yard then got it back to my base to build another yard. All this time im not dropping in Descent class warp in's and regular... Making good use of the ships i got. As regards warp in i'm currently loving the steamrunner and galaxy. The steam runner is very handy for early strikes on supplies if you get it from the looks of things? Galaxy seems very capable?
I do wonder if the federation can get these drop ins too early? I'm sure someone else could do it quicker than i managed here and the Descent class is a complete tank with its high defence, 2 quantum torpedoes (allowing it to maul other capital ships) and it's shield reset power.
I started to churn out Mayson Excelsior Mark II's at this point and go into full production. Teching all the way up and consolidating my massive supply situation. Placing down loads of torpedo turrets and detection grids. The Romulan computer was regularly stupid and torpedoes hitting cloaked ships seemed to anihilate him. I left the computers to duke it out and the Dominion one pretty much destroyed the Klingon and Romulan computers leaving the two of us to duke it out.
At this point i was playing around with ships and had already come to the conclusion of a fleet make up.
The backbone was Akiras, Excelsiors and Sovereigns as they all proved exceptionally capable ships. Unfortunately at this late stage even my Full officer sabres were no match and eventually even in the hit and fade and reserves role the sucumbed to the enemy.
For support ships i was using two descent class at full officer keeping the other warp in for counter attacks or shock attacks. Norways seemed capable ships at handling the masses however i didn't care much for the Carvel (sp?) support ship. Its final ability was nice but required a lot of micro management this late in the game!!!
Finally i had a large cadre of Klingon-Federation defiants. I have to say i LOVED these ships, with anti-matter mines, precise shot they soon became full officers. With 2 pulse phasers, 2 Quantum and the anti matter mine they are capable hit and fade, moving in striking hard... Precision shot on any big battleships before fading away and dropping mines as they do to catch faster moving ships (remenant klingon, romulans or even big dominion and breen ships)
In the end i got hold of a Dominion ship and my Federation Akira's were replaced with a More Balance Dominion-Federation Akira... true less defence but much more offence, good defence and also an extra torpedo launcher which was useful against the bigger dominion ships this late in the game....
I also got a full size 18 fleet of Miranda II's and they proved exceptional strike vessels, moving in ahead of the Fed-Kling Defiants to bog down a target before the defiants struke...
Finished the game with a 4.51 kill ratio and some lasting impressions.
Sabres rock... they outclassed everything... is this just dumb AI? I think not but you can all tell me?
Monsoon class. Was a let down, even as a klingon mix tech with its cheaper proximity torpedos. Shame
Intrepid seem good against borg but in all other situations call forth Akira's they seemed very very good
Norway are excellent support ships, not so sure about the standard fed support ship... Is it really worth it?
Excelsior Mark II seemed brilliant. Fast and with precise quantum torpedoes these ships also have massive range when they reach officer level... given the Federations high defence this is no bad thing.
Sovereign are okay... However given the speed of Excelsior production and Mayson's free +4 to defence and offence as well as the ACS torpedo that adds hitting power to an already strong defensive fed fleet i think that the Excelsior is the better choice? Am i wrong/right here guys?
Descent are beasts... Able to warp in early they can easily overpower units at that point in the game and gain experience... With shield and weapons researched and a full officer level Descent vessels have 84 Defensive value plus their shield reset... 2 working in the same fleet proved almost indestructible.. Got my first one 10 mins in the game... never lost that. Only lost another 2 of these and i'd played for 2 hours....
Warp in is very useful but quite random... Nothing sucks more than when you want Galaxy and Excelsior to strike fast against a fleet and Get Nebula and Steamrunner. Also same for when you need extra sensor or anti building.... In future will this change or is this something we have to accept
Mixed Tech seems very powerful, the Dominion mixed tech seems to offer the Federation the most out of Klingon, Romulan and Dominion. Haven't tried borg yet... Dominion Akira's rock with a more balanced stat line than either of the 2 avatars (inbetween their offense and defence) and an additional torpedo launcher.
Miranda II's are powerful ships even if you can only have 20. The increased ability of the collectors that you got from the Dominion mixed tech yard is also a big boon to the federation economy and well worth pursing.
Having said that the defiant variant from romulans is lovely for surprise attacks and the Klingon defiant is just a beast, with its pulse phasers and mines it levels up quickly and once it gets quantum it is powerful..
In the end i do have one particular question... Why do Monsoon vessels suck so much
and Why do people dislike mixed tech...
It is difficult to get but lovely if you do so. You might not get your avatars bonuses but in many cases this is good...
Romulan Excelsiors are going to be good with the other fed avatar as they will get a bonus
Klingon Defiants are good with Mayson as they provide extra punch to a defensive admiral...
So have i got these things right?? Or am i going to be horribly shocked about the units preformance online (i do expect a little shock.. the computer is very stupid at times... running over loads of mines... not targetting my Descent vessels, easily baited by Sabres.)
Early on i spammed pretty much sabres. They seem excellent ships and with hyper impulse they are very fast with good phaser range. Useful for hit and fade tactics and for early strikes on supplies. I don't know if that stands against a human, i suspect it does just a bit more difficult to manage because a human opponent isn't quite so stupid.
About 10 minutes in i dropped down a fleet command warp in, allowing me to cripple the dominion computer and capture a klingon construction unit. I quickly jumped that to a safe spot build a yard then got it back to my base to build another yard. All this time im not dropping in Descent class warp in's and regular... Making good use of the ships i got. As regards warp in i'm currently loving the steamrunner and galaxy. The steam runner is very handy for early strikes on supplies if you get it from the looks of things? Galaxy seems very capable?
I do wonder if the federation can get these drop ins too early? I'm sure someone else could do it quicker than i managed here and the Descent class is a complete tank with its high defence, 2 quantum torpedoes (allowing it to maul other capital ships) and it's shield reset power.
I started to churn out Mayson Excelsior Mark II's at this point and go into full production. Teching all the way up and consolidating my massive supply situation. Placing down loads of torpedo turrets and detection grids. The Romulan computer was regularly stupid and torpedoes hitting cloaked ships seemed to anihilate him. I left the computers to duke it out and the Dominion one pretty much destroyed the Klingon and Romulan computers leaving the two of us to duke it out.
At this point i was playing around with ships and had already come to the conclusion of a fleet make up.
The backbone was Akiras, Excelsiors and Sovereigns as they all proved exceptionally capable ships. Unfortunately at this late stage even my Full officer sabres were no match and eventually even in the hit and fade and reserves role the sucumbed to the enemy.
For support ships i was using two descent class at full officer keeping the other warp in for counter attacks or shock attacks. Norways seemed capable ships at handling the masses however i didn't care much for the Carvel (sp?) support ship. Its final ability was nice but required a lot of micro management this late in the game!!!
Finally i had a large cadre of Klingon-Federation defiants. I have to say i LOVED these ships, with anti-matter mines, precise shot they soon became full officers. With 2 pulse phasers, 2 Quantum and the anti matter mine they are capable hit and fade, moving in striking hard... Precision shot on any big battleships before fading away and dropping mines as they do to catch faster moving ships (remenant klingon, romulans or even big dominion and breen ships)
In the end i got hold of a Dominion ship and my Federation Akira's were replaced with a More Balance Dominion-Federation Akira... true less defence but much more offence, good defence and also an extra torpedo launcher which was useful against the bigger dominion ships this late in the game....
I also got a full size 18 fleet of Miranda II's and they proved exceptional strike vessels, moving in ahead of the Fed-Kling Defiants to bog down a target before the defiants struke...
Finished the game with a 4.51 kill ratio and some lasting impressions.
Sabres rock... they outclassed everything... is this just dumb AI? I think not but you can all tell me?
Monsoon class. Was a let down, even as a klingon mix tech with its cheaper proximity torpedos. Shame
Intrepid seem good against borg but in all other situations call forth Akira's they seemed very very good
Norway are excellent support ships, not so sure about the standard fed support ship... Is it really worth it?
Excelsior Mark II seemed brilliant. Fast and with precise quantum torpedoes these ships also have massive range when they reach officer level... given the Federations high defence this is no bad thing.
Sovereign are okay... However given the speed of Excelsior production and Mayson's free +4 to defence and offence as well as the ACS torpedo that adds hitting power to an already strong defensive fed fleet i think that the Excelsior is the better choice? Am i wrong/right here guys?
Descent are beasts... Able to warp in early they can easily overpower units at that point in the game and gain experience... With shield and weapons researched and a full officer level Descent vessels have 84 Defensive value plus their shield reset... 2 working in the same fleet proved almost indestructible.. Got my first one 10 mins in the game... never lost that. Only lost another 2 of these and i'd played for 2 hours....
Warp in is very useful but quite random... Nothing sucks more than when you want Galaxy and Excelsior to strike fast against a fleet and Get Nebula and Steamrunner. Also same for when you need extra sensor or anti building.... In future will this change or is this something we have to accept
Mixed Tech seems very powerful, the Dominion mixed tech seems to offer the Federation the most out of Klingon, Romulan and Dominion. Haven't tried borg yet... Dominion Akira's rock with a more balanced stat line than either of the 2 avatars (inbetween their offense and defence) and an additional torpedo launcher.
Miranda II's are powerful ships even if you can only have 20. The increased ability of the collectors that you got from the Dominion mixed tech yard is also a big boon to the federation economy and well worth pursing.
Having said that the defiant variant from romulans is lovely for surprise attacks and the Klingon defiant is just a beast, with its pulse phasers and mines it levels up quickly and once it gets quantum it is powerful..
In the end i do have one particular question... Why do Monsoon vessels suck so much
and Why do people dislike mixed tech...It is difficult to get but lovely if you do so. You might not get your avatars bonuses but in many cases this is good...
Romulan Excelsiors are going to be good with the other fed avatar as they will get a bonus
Klingon Defiants are good with Mayson as they provide extra punch to a defensive admiral...
So have i got these things right?? Or am i going to be horribly shocked about the units preformance online (i do expect a little shock.. the computer is very stupid at times... running over loads of mines... not targetting my Descent vessels, easily baited by Sabres.)
posted on April 29th, 2009, 4:22 am
You make a lot of good points, and are pretty spot on about most of the units. Sabers are indeed good for harrasment because of their long range and speed. I'll try and post on the points you asked about. Monsoons aren't used very often because of their short range. Sabers, Bugs, and Rhienns can stay out of range while the monsoon tries to keep up. Maybe the moonsoon would be more useful if it had the hyper impulse drive or something.
Norways are defintely good. Right now they get spammed like the devil because of plasma coil, but emergency power is useful as well.
The Canaveral is very useful. It's cloak detect doesn't work right now, but I'm sure they'll fix that, plus sensor blackout is huge in multiplayer games when later on your massive fleets just collide into one another.
Yep. Ben Mayson's :2guns: Excelsior II's are better than the Sovereign, the Sovereign is more useful for Risner, in my opinion.
Warp in is great, and the randomness is very cool. I actually like nebulas, because cannon fodder is a great thing, even in MP, since it takes the heat of of the vessels you actually purchased. Their sensor thingy is really nice when it's the lead ship. I've retreated before in MP, leaving my Nebulas behind, and the player slowed down long enough to take them out, letting my norways and other ships escape harm.
Steamrunners are amazing. The perfect artillary, because there's no Area of Effect that could destroy your ships like the Romulan Serkas can. Get 3 Steamrunners and use their triloaders against a building and watch it fall. Then if you play mayson, take 2 norways per steamrunner and use emergency power to bring their special up to full strength and do it again! You can do this while your fleet handles any ships you may encounter.
I think people look at mixed tech and balk at the cost of the vessels. I mean, why would I want to buy 5 mixed tech Akiras when I can have 6 regular Akiras? The question that has to be asked is, "Is the extra cost for this vessel worth the new ability?" Some of them are and some of them are not. Part of the reasoning for the cost is that these ships are not designed to replace normal yard ships, so you're only supposed to make them in handfuls to complement your fleet.
Some of these ships serve that function better than others. For example, Borg rhienns can transwarp a very small distance. Some people don't like that, but it's a perfect escape ability that can be done twice. But the dominion have a romulan mixed tech T-15 heavy cruiser that gives you a refit upgrade. But the cost of the ship plus the upgrade is astronomical to me! I'd like the refit to maybe give a special weapon, but it only gives stats.
Maybe another way of looking at it is some of these ships have some creative uses if you're willing to look for them. Maybe some fit your play style and some don't. The borg b'rels get regeneration, which might allow a handful of them to escape from a mining harrassment operation when cloaking is no longer an option.
Some ships, like the Miranda II and Dominion Dreadnought have no base comparison, so you don't realize that it costs more to build them. Plus they're amazing ships. Miranda IIs are just idiot prove, with a good speed, long range and a high defense. They're good against destroyers, cruisers, and battleships, so you can make a full fleet of 16 and call it a day. They cost almost as much as a defiant, but that long range really is key. And their special ability rocks.
The Dreadnought is the same way, but I've already posted on her recently.
Some of these mixed tech tactics will work and some won't obviously. The human element is a blast. Some times you think your enemy should be attacking, but you're way ahead of them. Or they might surprise you. Some that you play a while with have an M.O. and so you know exactly what they're going to do because they never deviate from it. I defintely encourage you to come play over the weekend when you have a connection that lets you play online. It's good fun.
Norways are defintely good. Right now they get spammed like the devil because of plasma coil, but emergency power is useful as well.
The Canaveral is very useful. It's cloak detect doesn't work right now, but I'm sure they'll fix that, plus sensor blackout is huge in multiplayer games when later on your massive fleets just collide into one another.
Yep. Ben Mayson's :2guns: Excelsior II's are better than the Sovereign, the Sovereign is more useful for Risner, in my opinion.
Warp in is great, and the randomness is very cool. I actually like nebulas, because cannon fodder is a great thing, even in MP, since it takes the heat of of the vessels you actually purchased. Their sensor thingy is really nice when it's the lead ship. I've retreated before in MP, leaving my Nebulas behind, and the player slowed down long enough to take them out, letting my norways and other ships escape harm.
Steamrunners are amazing. The perfect artillary, because there's no Area of Effect that could destroy your ships like the Romulan Serkas can. Get 3 Steamrunners and use their triloaders against a building and watch it fall. Then if you play mayson, take 2 norways per steamrunner and use emergency power to bring their special up to full strength and do it again! You can do this while your fleet handles any ships you may encounter.
I think people look at mixed tech and balk at the cost of the vessels. I mean, why would I want to buy 5 mixed tech Akiras when I can have 6 regular Akiras? The question that has to be asked is, "Is the extra cost for this vessel worth the new ability?" Some of them are and some of them are not. Part of the reasoning for the cost is that these ships are not designed to replace normal yard ships, so you're only supposed to make them in handfuls to complement your fleet.
Some of these ships serve that function better than others. For example, Borg rhienns can transwarp a very small distance. Some people don't like that, but it's a perfect escape ability that can be done twice. But the dominion have a romulan mixed tech T-15 heavy cruiser that gives you a refit upgrade. But the cost of the ship plus the upgrade is astronomical to me! I'd like the refit to maybe give a special weapon, but it only gives stats.
Maybe another way of looking at it is some of these ships have some creative uses if you're willing to look for them. Maybe some fit your play style and some don't. The borg b'rels get regeneration, which might allow a handful of them to escape from a mining harrassment operation when cloaking is no longer an option.
Some ships, like the Miranda II and Dominion Dreadnought have no base comparison, so you don't realize that it costs more to build them. Plus they're amazing ships. Miranda IIs are just idiot prove, with a good speed, long range and a high defense. They're good against destroyers, cruisers, and battleships, so you can make a full fleet of 16 and call it a day. They cost almost as much as a defiant, but that long range really is key. And their special ability rocks.
The Dreadnought is the same way, but I've already posted on her recently.
Some of these mixed tech tactics will work and some won't obviously. The human element is a blast. Some times you think your enemy should be attacking, but you're way ahead of them. Or they might surprise you. Some that you play a while with have an M.O. and so you know exactly what they're going to do because they never deviate from it. I defintely encourage you to come play over the weekend when you have a connection that lets you play online. It's good fun.
posted on April 29th, 2009, 12:32 pm
posted on April 29th, 2009, 1:34 pm
Personally, I use Monsoons like people use Sabers, but Monsoons are better in many ways:
*Increased Survivability
*Better Special
*Easier to spam
*Better Officer Rank Ability
*Useful to Counter Destroyer Spam
*Equivalent Firepower to Disruptor Refit Rhienn
*Less Expensive Than Disruptor Refit Rhienn
Need I go on?
Anyway, I personally relish mixed-tech. It gives very amazing vessels for a bit more costs.
*Increased Survivability
*Better Special
*Easier to spam
*Better Officer Rank Ability
*Useful to Counter Destroyer Spam
*Equivalent Firepower to Disruptor Refit Rhienn
*Less Expensive Than Disruptor Refit Rhienn
Need I go on?
Anyway, I personally relish mixed-tech. It gives very amazing vessels for a bit more costs.
posted on April 29th, 2009, 1:39 pm
Easier to spam?
Monsoon's are more expensive and take longer to build.... How can they be easier to spam?
With a shorter range their survivability isn't increased... Every other destroyer outpaces them and a lot have longer range.... Or it seems that way?
Monsoon's are more expensive and take longer to build.... How can they be easier to spam?
With a shorter range their survivability isn't increased... Every other destroyer outpaces them and a lot have longer range.... Or it seems that way?
posted on April 29th, 2009, 1:50 pm
@ Anthony
I totally agree with you, but I wouldn't go into that argument it gets ugly very fast
:fish:
I totally agree with you, but I wouldn't go into that argument it gets ugly very fast
:fish:
posted on April 29th, 2009, 2:00 pm
Personally I think the monsoons could use a little boost. However it would not have to be much, just a little stronger shields or increasing the weapon range to medium would do.
posted on April 29th, 2009, 2:20 pm
Increasing the range to medium might take the feel from the unit (Dog fight defender that can smash apart destroyers!!!) though a small shield boost could very well do it
As to the argument getting ugly. It is a shame if people cannot discuss and argue oppossing idea's because it gets ugly...
Unfortunately i love a good discussion and i'm also never intimidated because someone is going to get "ugly". As such untill i understand the other persons point of view to at least the point of being able to say "lets agree to disagree" i will continue the discussion....
Unless a mod or dev says otherwise of course
As to the argument getting ugly. It is a shame if people cannot discuss and argue oppossing idea's because it gets ugly...
Unfortunately i love a good discussion and i'm also never intimidated because someone is going to get "ugly". As such untill i understand the other persons point of view to at least the point of being able to say "lets agree to disagree" i will continue the discussion....
Unless a mod or dev says otherwise of course
posted on April 29th, 2009, 3:20 pm
ok point taken but ill agree on the shield bost then cuz compared to the saber it seems a little to weak to be useful. Also i dont think there are any mods anymore just developers. We are self policing.
posted on May 2nd, 2009, 11:34 pm
Hi there, i always wonder why everyone loves sabres... i already have Warp In with the 2nd Sabre/Monsoon leaving the Yard. With WarpIn i usually harass the resources of my opponents and then use the normal Yard for Norway spam (i find them pretty useful against small ships like rhienn).
I love mixed tech for building defiants (critical shot) without spending resources on tech/lot of EraudiYards, or miranda2 (what a powerful heavy little ship).
With Excelsior2 (ACS Torpedos), Newton and Defiant/Miranda2 and using WarpIns for hit and runs i often saved the day for the federation at early stages of the game
I love mixed tech for building defiants (critical shot) without spending resources on tech/lot of EraudiYards, or miranda2 (what a powerful heavy little ship).
With Excelsior2 (ACS Torpedos), Newton and Defiant/Miranda2 and using WarpIns for hit and runs i often saved the day for the federation at early stages of the game
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