Dominion vs Klingon (Early/Mid-Game)

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 2:10 pm

Ok, I want to know the best Dominion counter against this mixed fleet; Kbq, K'Vort, Vorcha, Vutpa, LuSpet. The reason being is that I often find that usually each ship covers each others backs fairly well. Whichever one is weak towards at least one or two act as a counter.

LuSpets and Vutpas appearently KO my Bugs and Bombers because of low defense values (small hull, and most damage from pulses). Vorchas really take down my S-2s. Kbqs and K'vorts in fair numbers demolish my B-8s and T-15s.

I often find myself lacking in counters until late game where all the big numbers are around.

[Anonymous]

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 2:18 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on July 22nd, 2010, 2:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lustpets and vutpas dont have pulses.

bugs counter kbq vorcha and vutpa

nothing counters all of those at once.

they have a variety of ranges and sizes.

i recommend a mixed fleet of your own. counters arent everything. a mixed fleet has the advantage that it cant be completely countered.

a good number of bugs is good as none of those are supports and only kvorts will eat them. the luspets will miss a lot, beware they have adai too, so dont rely on only mediums

and s2s for support never hurts.

[Nebula_Class_Ftw]

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 3:28 pm

Last edited by Nebula_Class_Ftw on July 22nd, 2010, 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

S-2 would be a bad idea because it will likely be targeted first by an experienced player and it is weak to short range (K'Vorts and LuSpets), while being strong against long range (which none of those Klingons ships are), it also is short range so it will do less damage to Vorcha. If you do use S-2 try to keep them in the back of the fleet so that the Bugs are targeted first then unleash the special. S-2 is overall weak to the fleet you described (and it's already fragile enuff without being countered. )

Bombers would be a good front part of your fleet because they do increased damage to K'Vort (even with the miss chances, the reload times on Bombers can allow them to do a fair amount of damage) and LuSpet, while taking less damage from Vorcha.

Breen Cruisers would be best against the Vorcha and Vutpa as they take less damage from Vorcha and do more damage to both (and K'BeajQ, but the small size damage reduction negates that), if you're Puretech you can go with bugs, but they won't be as effective.

To sum it up: two Bugs, three Breen Cruisers, four Bombers, and one S-2 with alpha white. Scaled up as fleet sizes demand.

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 3:43 pm

To sum it up: two Bugs, three Breen Cruisers, four Bombers, and one S-2 with alpha white. Scaled up as fleet sizes demand.

i disagree, i would go for between 6 and 8 bugs, 2 or 3 S-2s and assorted others

if u are not puretech protos are more expensive. so as breen you dont want to try build a whole collection of them if possible.

bugs counter 3 of the ships there which is good.

1 S-2 isnt enough, you will need 2 preferably 3, they are short ranged and not too slow, so if you are careful with them you can get them away in time. their main use is to constantly boost your pwnage output by 30%

make sure to repair everything after battles though, as relying on the white will leave you with yellow crews after too many uses.

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 3:52 pm

If Vutpas, K'Vorts, and K'BeajQ are out, the Klingon player has built at least two yards, expanded his field yard at least twice and built at least three research stations. I think you can afford three prototypes in that same timespan. It is also a generally good idea to have a variety of ship classes to choose from.

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 3:54 pm

If Vutpas, K'Vorts, and K'BeajQ are out, the Klingon player has built at least two yards, expanded his filed yard at last twice and built at least three research stations. I think you can afford three prototypes in that same timespan. It is also a generally good idea to have a variety of ship classes to choose from.

i was assuming both players were simply building up as many of the ship types mentioned as possible. so less protos = more combat ships.

in reality you should attack earlier and try kill the early game ships.

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 7:19 pm

Gamer, the best counter to a mixed fleet is you getting online and playing other people.

Then you'll have gained plenty of experience for yourself and will know how to handle certain situations.

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 7:56 pm

Well I wouldn't consider Vutpas and Luspets Early game. But KLingon early game is one of the toughest nuts to crack for Dominion. Especially Kvort are a real pain in the ass. KBJs is not that big of a problem since bugs counter them easily. Bombers should counter KVort but I don't know...
The best Klingon-Counter Dom gets is T15.

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 8:49 pm

fast t15 is fun

i love vet t15 counter weaponry. its awesome.

posted on July 22nd, 2010, 11:30 pm

Yeah, if you're looking at late-run Klingon battlecruisers, you really should have the advanced yard out there, and have at least t-15s, if not more.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 3:37 pm

T-15s would do well vs. K'Vort, but they are pulse-heavy, you should be using Breen Battleship (the Klingon fleet has no anti-long range and Breen has torps and beams) or C-17 (not ideal, but is only countered by K'Vort and has nice specials) mostly for the Klingon fleet described.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 4:37 pm

I think that on a resource-richer map, you could probably pump out a fair-sized mid-game fleet of S-2's,  with bug support to soak up some of that short-range...

That S-2 Ability always make me think of Scarface, at the end of the movie when he gets so high on coke that he wouldn't die, while he goes insane with the grenade launcher. 

Hmm, that might be a fun special ability too:

Tainted Ketracel:  Doubles firepower for 10 seconds, though portion of crew goes insane and wrecks up the ship before beaming out into space, potentially crippling the ship.

(In fact, if anyone ever played the Scarface PS2 game, which was a what-if scenario in which he didn't die at the end of the movie; he had a little gauge that would fill up when he killed people, and when it maxed out you could trigger a coke-rush, which would make scarface go insane, become invincible, and have infinite ammo for 15 seconds or so)

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 6:30 pm

(the Klingon fleet has no anti-long range and Breen has torps and beams)

Vutpas and B'rels counter long range, that's why I find it always hard with Dominion early game against Klingons. KVorts eat Bugs, Brels eat Bombers, Breen don't hit, S2 counter long range but there is no long range for Klingons  . The only effective thing is warfrigate, but that ship is quite ugly, so I don't build it  . T-15 should do good, though.
If the Klingon has already Vutpas, you should have even better things than T-15. However, I'm not really familiar with the larger Dominion ships but V-13. Some of those with their special can be nice, too.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 6:36 pm

I meant the fleet described in the first post, which did not include B'Rels. Vutpa does not hav an anti-long range counter passive.

War Frigate/T-15 probably shouldn't be built because the fleet they would face is mainly larger ships that aren't so great for shooting pulses at.

V-13 would be good, but Klingons have stronger hulls than most factions.

posted on July 23rd, 2010, 6:38 pm

Vutpas and B'rels counter long range, that's why I find it always hard with Dominion early game against Klingons. KVorts eat Bugs, Brels eat Bombers, Breen don't hit, S2 counter long range but there is no long range for Klingons  . The only effective thing is warfrigate, but that ship is quite ugly, so I don't build it  . T-15 should do good, though.
If the Klingon has already Vutpas, you should have even better things than T-15. However, I'm not really familiar with the larger Dominion ships but V-13. Some of those with their special can be nice, too.

sang is long range, chonaq is long range, veq is artillery range.

if u avoid a whole class of ship ONLY because u find it unnatractive then u have no excuse puretech cant build b8 in 3.1.3 as there is a problem with that.

T15 is good vs field yard klinks. kvorts and brels have no chance as they are both short range, and their pulses do reduced damage to the medium sized t15. and their torps (for taq) miss sometimes too. and u can reach T15 rather fast.

large dom ships are awesome, the c17 is really good, both as support and as a normal ship. the b5 is also good. i like to make all the possible b5. then maybe later do their research if money permits. as they become really strong, especially against stations. the v13 is awesome too for pure mainly.