Dodecahedron Spam - Love it or Hate it

posted on June 1st, 2010, 8:32 pm

I had a 3v3 today 3 players were Borg, eventually when I seen the fleet of one of the Borg players, it was of mainly Dodes, fairly normal, so I left them to attack my team, only to eat up their exp. Later on in the game however they decided to pay me a visit, in my base...
This is a picture of the delightful fleet waiting for me.
Also even though I'm Borg these Dodes take out subsystems instantly for ages.

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posted on June 1st, 2010, 9:18 pm

I've seen Dodec spam before from HGF (they seem to love spamming, especially as Borg and Feds.) It's really annoying since my ships tend to lose engines and be unable to retreat to repair.

Right now some Dodecs may be a little OP; when I play as Borg I usually don't bother building more than 2 Scubes since I know that Dodecs are the best until I can get Spheres. Double interception moduled Dodecs tend to be unstoppable, but Int/Regen Dodecs are my preference since I would hate to lose combat ability for too long.

Relay Dodecs are nice, but I hate the low offensive value with the enormous size. I can't line them up like I can with other races' turrets, and they don't do enough damage by mid-game. The lack of visibility of the weaponry also makes the intimidation factor really low. I would expect Borg turrets to have a lot more weaponry.

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 11:23 pm

I've seen Dodec spam before from HGF (they seem to love spamming, especially as Borg and Feds.)

You can add Klingons to that list. Played a 3v3 against them and they built exactly 4 different classes. Dodes, Cubes, Excel II and Susa's

posted on June 3rd, 2010, 11:34 pm

Hmm, well see guys here's the thing:

  It's YOUR job now to show them that spamming is for losers by countering what they build!

  The only thing in that list that can't really be countered well if spammed is Dodes.  Susa's, Excel II's, can be countered pretty easily now .

posted on June 4th, 2010, 12:07 am

yep, the dodeca performed a bit too good military wise and we will do some adjustments in 3.1.3

posted on June 4th, 2010, 3:41 pm

We did Boggz. They had zero protection add their home mining... 

posted on June 4th, 2010, 5:25 pm

I had a 4v4, Me, Mort, Alternate and another player against HGF and they built only excells II, dodes, susas and starbases to block expansions. We destroyed them, proving that mixed fleets are better than spaming one of a class fleets.

posted on June 4th, 2010, 5:29 pm

That is why I make a mixed spam. I spam, I just spam almost all of it.

posted on June 4th, 2010, 9:06 pm

Lol you silly people complaining about spam. If you were truly a pro you could take on anything with no challenge.

Just kidding.  Yeah does not look like much fun

posted on June 4th, 2010, 9:35 pm

Lol you silly people complaining about spam. If you were truly a pro you could take on anything with no challenge.

Just kidding.  Yeah does not look like much fun

  Hhaha, spam itself is not a bad thing, although it makes it a bit boring.

  SPAM (the curse-word kind ) is making ONE type of unit the entire game basically.  Nobody really cares to see that or play against that because it's 1-dimensional and wholly un-fun / uncreative.

  ABUSING spam is when a play chooses to SPAM only a unit that they are fully aware is overpowered or acknowledged as having an exploit that was unintended. 

 
  Examples of differences in this are: 

Abusable Spam

3.1.2 Dodecahedron - it's intercept module became a bit more powerful then was really intended and massing them can cause absolute chaos on races that have to rely on many small ships like the Klingons and the Dominion.  This is a borderline exploit, but most people tend to avoid it by only making a few (bless their 'earts ).

3.1 K'vorts / Leahvals / Intrepids - easily massable and having no real counter, these were also exploits because their new passives came with really non-tangible drawbacks.  Thus, even though a few times you might see their vulnerability come to light, it was more or less not an issue and they could be spammed like crazy and dominate the town!

Intended Spam
3.1.2 Akiras - They get spammed a lot because they are a baseline unit.  Once a Fed player techs up and starts to play with higher tech vessels like Defiants, Avalons, and Sovereigns, you want to have a strong base unit to fill out your fleet that you don't really have to micro.  Feds excel at base units that don't need micro and the Akira is the perfect example .  It's a great ship, it's able to be countered, and you can have many of them without having to pay attention to them too much in a big battle.  Spam away! 

Intended but maybe too strong Spam
3.1.2 K'beajq - A great all around unit that, in itself, is balanced.  The KBQ is also intended to be a baseline vessel that is a "build and forget about" in large battles as they are 360 degree shooters at medium range.  The problem arises that they are almost a little TOO good at absorbing fire on their hulls.  This is a situational problem though where only against races that rely heavily on torpedoes (feds) or have no real decloaking tool (klingons) get really hurt.  Actually killing the KBQ's early on in the game is a major problem if the user of them can micro them well and cloak-retreat.  The ship itself is not OP by any means, but just certain minor things create little "wtf c'cmon!" moments in games .


  I'm happy to say that, in my opinion, 3.1.2 is probably the most balanced patch so far and few issues remain.  Only the Dode is really an actual problem, but not one that is SUPER easy to avoid.  If clans like HGF choose to spam double intercept or intercept/regen dodes for the purpose of exploiting that oversight, then don't play with them .  You can't MAKE them stop, clearly, so just say NO! .  Also say NO to drugs  .

  Almost anything else that can be spammed can now be countered if you draw yourself back carefully, refit/reorder your forces, and dive into battle at the right time!

posted on June 4th, 2010, 11:23 pm

So guys, a Forum about us ?!
Really kind


A little about - Hungarian Gamer Fleet:

We are a Star Trek and Multigaming clan since 2 years ago, and yeah, we play with Fleet Ops.
But since 6 months we didnt play with outsiders (non-clan members), and now only cause the Tunngle play with non-clan members too

After 5 days of Active Fleet Ops. playing, we won 13 matches, we have 0 draws, and only 1 loses (yesterday we are really tired...), because this wins, and cause you cant lose, you started a Forum Theme about this spamming stuff... Great

You really dont like losing, and u says that we are "spammers"

I play with this game only for the Teamwork and for fun, not for that that we kick some asses or anything
So we may not ensure it, that you ever loose against us
We like theese tactics cause u cant defend yourself against them only with hard team work, because this team work i like this game so much

I and my clanmates didnt won so many matches without a really good team work
The tactics is one thing, and the teamwork is an other...

And yeah, i like susas, borg_cmd likes the dodes, and we like the excelsior 2's too, but the game contains theese units, and we can use them for anything if we want
But you dont see, that you makes these things too, you (or your team) spam a lot of kvorts, K'beajq 's , intrepids, and so on... , so i can called you as a spammer... no comment... and its insulting a bit...

Because this, u called us spammers, but we only play with the game, and make units, u can make this units too my friend
So we are not cheaters or anything, we play tidily, we like the funny and good game with a good team work, maybe you too...

There are old players, like Mort or Funny, wo knows us from the old times
And they know too, that we play tidily, and we like the good game with a good team work... and i know it from they, we play a lots of time against ang past us (remember Sütee too) , and theese matches was elapsed  in a good temper and it makes a lots of fun


Finally, everyone seen that there are a lots of unbalanced things, like the Dodes with two interception module, and so on... but its maybe will repair in the 3.1.2 patch

And Quote from Funny, he didnt says anything about the susas, excel2's spamming, instead rather the K'Vorts, K'beajq !!!! , the Intrepids, and theese ships, that we rarely makes with the HGF... and you and your team makes it a lots of times

After this accident, we naturally makes new tactics, principally with Borg
(I dont like Dodes, but borg_cmd likes them )

So, meets on the battlefield comrades !


Regards,


PS. (you --> to the Forum Theme's Author)

posted on June 4th, 2010, 11:37 pm

Ha!  Well frankly I'm excited to see you in the forums, Lupus! .

  Please don't take my post as an attack on your clan.  It was not intended to be that way, but instead use you guys as an example for discussing what is "good spam" and "bad spam".  Many people do not like the way you guys tend to play and I was trying to alleviate some of that anger by showing how, in 3.1.2, there is nothing wrong with spamming because it can always be countered.  The other side of that being that the only real unit that cannot be countered if spammed are those two types of Dodecahedrons.

 
  However, since I have your attention, and since you chose to bring up your "record"  , Boggz might take a moment to point out to you:

  That YES, you guys have a history of abusing features in the game that are recognized even by the developers as "mistakes" and hiding behind the notion that "well since it's here in the game, it's fair".  I whole-heartedly disagree with that attitude and have chosen simply not to play with your clan because I can't MAKE you change .  I can only affect it from my end by choosing to only play with community members that do not intentionally abuse "bugs" and exploits that the devs missed.  THAT, you cannot deny that you HGF guys have done . 

  I confess that I don't believe the HGF clan abused literal "bugs" like the C-11 Cascade Feedback, but you completely embraced the tactic of 3.0.7 bug-ramming when it was acknowledged as overpowered, you spammed the imbalanced ships like Kvorts/Intrepids/Norways/Leahvals in 3.1/3.1.1 when it was acknowledged that there was no counter for them, and y'all have never once claimed any other reason than because "it's there, so we're gonna use it".

  Thus, I have absolutely no qualms about calling you guys out in references to gameplay tactics and such.  If you don't like me doing that, you can feel free to take the same position I've done with you:  Don't play with me .  Or in better words: TOUGH TITTIES!!

  Luckily, there is only 1 vessel capable of really being exploited in spam and that's the dode.  You guys may disagree and spam it, but everything else you can spam can be countered and I will HAPPILY provide concerned forum members with the knowledge needed to effectively play against those tactics.

  Have a Nice Day!

posted on June 4th, 2010, 11:54 pm

i can see this degenerating into a flame war soon. but i agree with boggz, i dont like playstyle so i dont play with them. they can play within their clan if they want and have fun clashing dodes vs e2

posted on June 5th, 2010, 12:01 am

Shouldn't be a flame-war .

  Lupus just stated that people disagree with their tactics because we "don't like to lose", but I'm saying to everyone who has a hard time playing with them that there are now ways to counter spam .

  The only thing that is too hard to counter when spammed is the Dode.   They can spam everything else as much as they want .


  I just don't like hearing that they feel everyone who accuses them of using exploits is whining because:

[quote[You really dont like losing, and u says that we are "spammers"[/quote]

-when that's clearly not the case .

  Everything should be fine.  If you ask me, this is a great way for the air to be cleared and for the HGF members to have a say .

posted on June 5th, 2010, 1:17 am

There are old players, like Mort or Funny, wo knows us from the old times
And they know too, that we play tidily, and we like the good game with a good team work... and i know it from they, we play a lots of time against ang past us (remember Sütee too) , and theese matches was elapsed  in a good temper and it makes a lots of fun


Finally, everyone seen that there are a lots of unbalanced things, like the Dodes with two interception module, and so on... but its maybe will repair in the 3.1.2 patch

And Quote from Funny, he didnt says anything about the susas, excel2's spamming, instead rather the K'Vorts, K'beajq !!!! , the Intrepids, and theese ships, that we rarely makes with the HGF... and you and your team makes it a lots of times

Hehe there have been a lot of good times indeed. I will admit, its very hard, and I've gotten a little angry over it sometimes, but I actually like playing against you guys. Its thrilling, and when we win, the victory just tastes so much sweeter! 

Oh and when did I say that Lupus?