Borg - Early Recycler

posted on December 12th, 2010, 7:59 pm

This is probably for something like a 3v3 or 4v4, but this strategy involves putting the Recycler up as soon as the Conduction Matrix is up, then building two Incubation Centers to support the Recycler.

It could probably win in the long run because of the extra resources that the Recycler gives.  Because if a player is short on a certain resource, that player can run the Recycler until that resource reaches the required amount.

It probably won't win a 1v1 or 2v2, but it could possibly win a 3v3 or 4v4.  Assuming that the Borg player also builds vessels in the mean time.  It would require an extra Assembly Node.

posted on December 12th, 2010, 8:05 pm

maybe if u made your starting build normal, then asked a team mate for some money to use your first con ship to make the recycler, that way u save the money cos u dont have to make another con ship.

posted on December 12th, 2010, 8:58 pm

While the one constructor ship is building the Recycler and the Incubation Centers, the other one can be building the ships.

posted on December 12th, 2010, 9:48 pm

While the one constructor ship is building the Recycler and the Incubation Centers, the other one can be building the ships.

i figured that, my suggestion was a modification of yours.

in my suggestion you get your starting ships up, but still get a recycler much earlier than usual.

your way adds the cost of a second constructor. which is a rather large cost that isnt necessary.

if u dont get some ships out early on your mining will just get slaughtered.

posted on December 12th, 2010, 10:04 pm

Maybe a few probes while the Recycler and Incubation Centers are being constructed.  That way, your mining has some defense.  But it would be more of a 3v3 or 4v4 strategy because of the extra time it would take to get started on the Scubes.  But the player would probably have enough collective connections afterwards to build a sphere or assimilator.  The assimilator is more of a cheap sphere when given 2 torps and 1 beam module.  The only difference is in the armor regeneration rate and armor strength of the two vessels.  I may test this in the next game.

posted on December 13th, 2010, 10:46 am

I have done this before, and it just depends on the situation. Usually I would place a few uplinks before i go for the recycler because then i can still builld ships to reinforce the fleet i have. Having the recycler does help get early resources, but i found that i had to turn it off a few times to allow my connections to recover, although i suppose you could use resources from the recycler to invest in another CC level

posted on February 12th, 2011, 10:07 am

I have tried this a few times with mixed results. It depends on how aggressive your opponent(s) is. The resources required to set up a self-sustaining recycler puts you at a disadvantage early on as to how many vessels you can field. I calculated it once but have lost the piece of paper; the recycler plus four maximised incubation centres it needs to maintain supply levels takes around 12 minutes to pay for itself. Before this time you are playing with a direct disadvantage compared to your opponent (less resources to invest in ships) and an indirect disadvantage (less resources available to make resource collectors for an expansion, futher depleting your relative resource level). I found that if I could hold ground for around 15 mins then the advantage would swing in my favour. It also depends on how many expansions are available. Many (3-4) means the relative boost to resources is less (resources made by recycler is a smaller proportion of incoming for both players) than with fewer (1-2).
A few people commented on my recycler when they saw it saying "it is too early for a recycler". Who am I to break with popular tradition? I am Borg and we will adapt!

posted on February 12th, 2011, 11:49 am

the math might have changed since incubation centres now give more supply but cost more i think.

[Dominus_Noctis]

posted on February 12th, 2011, 2:56 pm

Last edited by Dominus_Noctis on February 12th, 2011, 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Twelve minutes is correct (around 11.6) - it's also noted on the guide for quite some time 

EDIT: just did some checking, and apparently I was stupid and forgot that was overcompensating... so it's about 10.55 if you want to lose 1 supply every 10 seconds or so (3 fully maxed). Or you can go 4 Incub, 2 maxed to get overcompensation but take 12.2 minutes to recuperate.

[Anonymous]

posted on February 12th, 2011, 3:02 pm

Last edited by Anonymous on February 12th, 2011, 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Twelve minutes is correct (around 11.6) - it's also noted on the guide for quite some time 

what about the number of incubators needed to satiate the desire of the recycler?

---

EDIT: how do you get the 10.55 value? 1 maxi incub?

[Tryptic]

posted on February 12th, 2011, 3:40 pm

Last edited by Tryptic on February 12th, 2011, 3:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

We were talking about this on tunngle, and it seems there's been a misunderstanding.  When Dom says the recycling center repays itself in 12.2 minutes, he means it repays itself and 4 max incubation chambers at the 12.2 minute mark.  Apparently it repays itself after only 2 minutes or so.

So if you build the incubation centers as the money comes in, you will have exactly the same amount of resources than if you hadn't built it, except for supply.  Also, since the recycling center produces Dilthium and Tritanium separately, you can turn off one of them and "trade" it for supply, for example if your allies have extra tri but not supply.  So effectively you can choose where your disadvantage goes, it gets applied to your least-needed resources instead of your most-needed one.

The more I look at it I realize, if you trade with your team it doesn't need to be a disadvantage except for the initial 1-2 minutes after it's built.  I can definitely work with that number.

posted on February 12th, 2011, 3:56 pm

While the one constructor ship is building the Recycler and the Incubation Centers, the other one can be building the ships.

That would not work as the other would be attacked, while that 1 ally is making ships the 3 enemy foes are all building ships, and can easyly kite and destroy miners stations because only 1 ally is making the ships.

They would have even worse trouble dealing with a cloaking race. Unless you just left them to it and let them build up resources then it wouldnt make much of a difference and if you do leave them good you lost shame.

posted on February 13th, 2011, 6:26 am

I just got done testing recycler builds, with some interesting results.

If you go a standard 2 probe, 2 intercept scube build, the soonest you can get a sphere out is the 10-minute mark.  It takes 9 minutes to get the 70 CC you need for the 2 scubes and sphere chassis with energy nodes level 1.  You can buy nodes level 2, but then you won't have enough resources to build until the 9 minute mark anyway.

But! If you get recycling center immediately after the first 2 uplinks (you have to delay the second probe 30 seconds, boo-hoo), you can buy nodes level 2 AND get the resources in time to build the sphere, starting it at 8:30 and finishing at 9:30.  You can actually have a STRONGER early game with a recycling center than without one!

Now, obviously your supply takes a hit, but you still have enough to get a second sphere.  Plus you'll have a good stream of income, enough to start getting incubation chambers.  While it's safer to do this with an ally who can send you emergency supply, I think it's perfectly viable in 1v1.  It even gives you control over your resource balance: if your Dilithium starts getting ahead you can scale it back, and vice-versa.

Of course, that being said, you have to pay a LOT of attention to your economy.  It might not be worth the time you can't spend microing your ships.

posted on February 13th, 2011, 11:22 am

lol ill try this out see if it works.

posted on February 13th, 2011, 2:47 pm

My team won a 4v4 because I went early recycler.

My team was double-Borg, Romulan, Federation.
Opponent was Double-Romulan, Double Dominion.

I went Early recycler and handed any vessels I built to my Borg ally.  Well, I did build a couple of dode relays at my ally's request, but I sent over a total of 2 spheres and 3 probes, which is all I built.  My ally and I were going for cubes, but the game ended too early.  The only unit I loss was a dode relay.  So the early recycler does work.