The Federation are Communist?

posted on November 30th, 2010, 1:34 pm

Hey all. I was just pondering something about the Federation. Are they Communist?

My reasoning being, as stated in First Contact, greed and the want to obtain more had been eliminated (and that money did not exsist) . In the episode on TNG (can't remember the name) where they find those people in cryo-stasis, Picard says that Earth was one planet among many in the United Federation of Planets. And also it seems that (apart from rank), ever person, in every race, in the Federation, is equal. And I don't think it would be hard to fit a hammer and sickle over that emblem of theirs (or should I say phaser and tricorder ).

So the question is... are the Federation, Communist? 

*Besides, modern day Russia is called - The Russian Federation 

[Tyler]

posted on November 30th, 2010, 1:42 pm

Last edited by Tyler on November 30th, 2010, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

They're not, they're much closer to what gullible Americans think America is.

It's not like equality = communism.

posted on November 30th, 2010, 2:16 pm

They are a full democarcy (much more democratic then our todays "democarcies" are), but without a free market as there is no inner-federation currency and without a military, as starfleet acts recording to mandates given by the council. I picture the Federation much closer to a union of interessts, like the UN, then a real cross-planet government. There are many references to local gouvernments in the shows, but too less information to make any precise statements. It's even unsure if there are planetary currencies, there are a few hints in that direction too.

The Federation is administered by a complex hierarchy, councils, representatives and there is a lot of personal property. There might be planetary governments in the Federation using a communistic structure (although i don't recall one from the shows) but the Federation itself seems to have a strong democarcy touch, perhaps slightly spiced up with technocracy.

posted on November 30th, 2010, 2:21 pm

There is money in the Federation, it has been used multiple times and is just a very low priority.

posted on November 30th, 2010, 2:59 pm

If you take the definition of communism, the federation is really close to it, but not in every field. The minor importance of money is for example a strong indicator for that, also the everyone-for-everyone.

The freedom you understand out of the democracy is more or less the "rule of the mass" - so the greatest part (voters) tell the rest, what to do. This is democracy.

There are two kinds of views on it:

After a certain amount of people, you need a solid system to ensure the peaceful living of all people under a system... you can take democracy, communism or whatever comes in your mind.

The democracy got the advantage, that the greatest part of the people will get their will done (in a REAL democracy - I dont want to start a large discussion about it, but neither the U.S.A. nor germany got a REAL one. I doubt there is one out there)

The disadvantage: The larger the system, the more administrative work has to be done and it gets more and more static and inflexible. So... IF the feds are a democracy, I think, it will stand still, because you cant really make changes in such a large system... and when, it will be too late.

I think its more of a group-parliment of the planets within the fed.

posted on November 30th, 2010, 3:09 pm

They strike me as more of a Republican Technocracy.  And I don't mean Republican as in the political party.  The Federation Council, made up of representatives from all over Federation space is their version of a Senate.

And it makes sense.  They are smarter than to try to go with a Democracy, due to it's one fatal flaw.  51% of the people can oppress 49% of the people.  Given that Humans breed like rabbits compared to, say, vulcans...it would turn bad quickly.

posted on November 30th, 2010, 4:27 pm

The Federation is definitely not communist, but they do exhibit certain communist concepts, most notably no money, which isn't even true. They have currency, the credit I think, but it's used mostly for large scale trade rather than personal purchases and I don't think it has "value" in the same way we "value" money. This makes sense as most people can just replicate 70-80% of anything they would need, including food and clothes. And I don't think the government owns anything.

I'm also pretty sure the Federation is a democracy, they have a president, and don't we see the Federation Council at the end of ST:IV? But I don't think that they govern each planet like America's federal government controls the states. I believe each planet is pretty much left to itself and the Federation just lays out some general rules and protections which planetary governments must follow. The Federation is closer to one big alliance than a combined political state.

And also it seems that (apart from rank), ever person, in every race, in the Federation, is equal.

Federation equality is like American equality. Equal under law and between races, but not necessarily social position or economic standing. Rather than the communist view which is primarily equality of socio-economic standing.

posted on November 30th, 2010, 4:52 pm

the way i see it, the federation is a democracy, and the reason money is not a big deal in the federation would be because of replicators, and if money was the motivation to do anything, then no one would because of replicators. So the reason its so hard to identify is because with a society that does not value money but is still really advanced and unified, it would just be so different from anything today and would just be different when it comes to motivation and progress.

[Nuukov]

posted on November 30th, 2010, 5:16 pm

Last edited by Nuukov on November 30th, 2010, 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yeah, I all see your points. I am not fighting for and saying they are Commies, or Demmies...
I was just wondering about everyone's opinion.
But yeah, they do have more Demmie traits.


But still, we will always have...

The B☭RG

<3 <3

posted on November 30th, 2010, 5:22 pm

Yeah, I suppose the Borg are the epitomy of communism, they even come complete with their own immortal evil dictator (so to speak). 

[Nuukov]

posted on November 30th, 2010, 5:29 pm

Last edited by Nuukov on November 30th, 2010, 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hehe. Yeah...

And I know we decided that the Feds are Demmies, but I just could not resist...







EDIT: Take a look at this: YouTube
- Examples of Communism in star trek

posted on November 30th, 2010, 5:48 pm

*Besides, modern day Russia is called - The Russian Federation

This was Pavel Chekov's dream.

Perhaps you have not heard Russian epic of Cinderella.  If shoe fits, wear it.....

posted on December 1st, 2010, 4:17 am

Wait a sec there is a hammer and a sickle as a char??? I want the US seal.

posted on December 1st, 2010, 1:29 pm

Well, a friend found the Hammer+Sickle in Character Map.

Open Character Map -> Font: Arial Unicode MS -> Tick Advanced -> Group by -> Unicode Subrange -> Symbols and Dingbats -> Last one on the second row. CCCP!

Not sure where the US seal is, or even if it is on there...

posted on December 1st, 2010, 2:03 pm

Lol saying that having no money is Communism isn't right. Communism doesn't mean that there isn't any money, it means that the Government controls all of the money, the businesses, the people, and just about everything else. I say that Star Trek doesn't have an money because there is no use for it anymore due to advances in technology. They have replicators, Transporters, Matter/Antimatter power reactors, and many other useful things.