Star Trek: Nemesis - Shinzon`s viceroy

posted on August 12th, 2012, 7:59 pm

I just re-watched the movie for 5th time and I still think it has one of best battles ST has to offer (besides few from DS9 last seasons).

I know that Viceroy is Reman and I also know they have great potential for telepathy, much as Betazoids do. I am a bit confused to: when Shinzon gets rapidly worse in first scene, Viceroy puts his hand on his (Shinzon) chest and does something close to detection or healing - and that`s what confused me. What actually was? Did he used some sort of telepathic power to detect his health condition or he used something else to slow down his illness? Could someone elaborate more on the subject?

posted on August 12th, 2012, 11:42 pm

i don't think it was ever explicitly explained, it was just poor characterisation. a weird magic monster alien character. i didn't like viceroy.

posted on August 12th, 2012, 11:45 pm

The shiny explodey bits aside, was there anything good about Nem in the first place?

posted on August 12th, 2012, 11:52 pm

The shiny explodey bits aside, was there anything good about Nem in the first place?

honestly, not really, the film has to stand on the action alone, as the story is a b-movie cliché dredged up and reheated.

as an action film i don't really have that much against it, it's not as good as insurrection tbh. insurrection was more like a real episode of star trek. nemesis was an action movie, with picard smacking monsters upside the head with his cheap made in space china knock off rifle.

even the sound effects for the phasers sounded more "star wars-y". all in all, it wasn't as good as it should have been, but i tolerate it.

first contact is a much more popular film, but even it has lots of crap. the story is a bit cliché (baddie goes back in time to wipe out your species), and the action is slathered on thick, and the writers couldn't be arsed to watch TNG and see how picard is actually characterised. honestly, if it weren't for some big showpiece scenes, and some clever bits, it would be compared to nemesis more.

posted on September 25th, 2012, 5:58 pm

I would also argue that the only "good bits" in Nemesis were the parts ripped off from Undiscovered Country anyway (the charming, enigmatic antagonist who likes to verbally joust with the protagonist, and sort of weirdly respects him, the fire-whilst-cloaked ship, the political elements, the dilithium mine plot point)

It's like someone who liked Undiscovered Country said "Hey this is great, lets update it to TNG!" and well, it's almost a straight (what would be called in the days of old DOS games) "Palette Swap". Swap out the old enemy, the Klingons, for the Romulans, because they kind of became the TNG Klingons. Lets make them a bit more "warrior-ish" though, and call them Remans. The Fire-whilst-cloaked BoP was cool but it was still just a BoP. How about we make it HUGE! Yeah thats cool.

Ad nauseum. Then add the obligatory sci-fi action plot elements of "the bad guy looks bad", random shooty bits, then throw in a vague love story/brain rape sub-plot just to get some cheap sex elements in there to appeal to the hairy palm brigade.

Undiscovered Country left you feeling nostalgic for TOS and for the TMP Era films. It made you want more. It was a fitting swansong. Nemesis was just...odd. I personally see First Contact as the "end" of TNG. It's a nice reversal, the end of TNG with the "beginning" of Star Trek. I just wish Enterprise hadn't come out of it really. Felt a bit forced.

Anyways I digress!

The whole Reman race in Nemesis was a bit of a tired cliche, the whole "Space Vampire" thing.

posted on September 25th, 2012, 6:12 pm

At least these space-Nosferatu don't sparkle...

posted on September 25th, 2012, 7:02 pm

the fire-whilst-cloaked ship.

The Scimitar was a horrible munchkin uber-ship. Kang's ship was just a bird of prey with a neat trick.

posted on September 25th, 2012, 10:19 pm

About the only thing I liked in Nemesis was the visual design for the Reman race. Something just seemed interesting about their bat like appearance, and yes I even liked their cheesy iridescent suits. It's too bad they were portrayed as little more then mindless monsters that could barely press the human sized buttons on their own ship. About everything else in the movie was either boring or dragged on too long. The fact that the Remans were able to build a super duper planet killer warship right next door to Romulus without them knowing always made me facepalm. That's like not noticing that your neighbors are building an M1-Abrams tank in your garage. It really is disappointing (or maybe a good thing) that they did not go with the mirror universe angle, the first trailer for Nemesis really screamed Mirror Universe what with Shinzon talking about reflections, duplicates of Picard and Data, etc. Nemesis was not so much horrible as it was drawn out, derivative of past movies, and ultimately boring and pointless after the adrenaline rush of ships shooting at each other for an hour wore off.

I would also argue that the only "good bits" in Nemesis were the parts ripped off from Undiscovered Country anyway (the charming, enigmatic antagonist who likes to verbally joust with the protagonist, and sort of weirdly respects him, the fire-whilst-cloaked ship, the political elements, the dilithium mine plot point)

And that is why Undiscovered Country is still my favorite movie.

posted on September 26th, 2012, 6:13 pm

[quote="The Undying Nephalim"]About the only thing I liked in Nemesis was the visual design for the Reman race. [quote]

You know... if they hadn't hired two untalented b-movie-writers for Nemesis, the Remans would have had the potential of being a core part of the plot, a much better one. It makes sense the Remans wanna be free after being slaves to the arrogant romulans for so long, and as their existence wasn't even mentioned on TNG it could have been a real twist if the federation would discover that there's an entire race noone knew about except for the romulans. Shinzon, Scimitar... would all that be necessary? There could be such an interesting and deep story about federation principles, a first contact and diplomacy (Picard-style) and the whole TNG-cast would have given the opportunity to show their strong side instead of being turned into a pseudo-battlehardened staff.

[godsvoice]

posted on September 26th, 2012, 6:22 pm

Last edited by godsvoice on September 27th, 2012, 3:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Best Movie: Generations - fact

Nemesis positives: Question of Identity - who are 'you', if you can be cloned at whim?

Not a practical issue, as consciousness can not be replicated like this. Nice to write in 'oh and there is a technology for transplanting memories' but in reality the issue is mute. Although potential of cloning does create the question of a physical issue of identity with bodies. The mind would almost certainly be different.. but how far etc. Question was explored for both picard and data. (it is imaginable, but how relevant it is is certainly in question. Maybe consciousness and experiences can be shared in some extrasensory way or what have you, its just not really mainstream enough to mean anything in this context)

Issue of mortality. Again, picard and data. Nice to let data die, gives him some humaneness. Some good scenes with this.

Romulan story development. Potential for greater peace. Even if the race remains somewhat enigmatic.

Fight scenes - ship - ship. I though hand to hand fight was boring.

Riker / troi, and Riker send off to be on his own ship.

Despite negatives, the story did end a few ties and close a few chapters. Riker is on his own ship and has moved on from Enterprise. We saw the culmination of data's 'growth' and what it is to be more human. Dead, ironically enough. (of course it can be written more poetically - give your life for friends, family (before. enterprise crew)... and so on

but... yeah not the best movie.

posted on September 26th, 2012, 8:16 pm

You know... if they hadn't hired two untalented b-movie-writers for Nemesis, the Remans would have had the potential of being a core part of the plot, a much better one. It makes sense the Remans wanna be free after being slaves to the arrogant romulans for so long, and as their existence wasn't even mentioned on TNG it could have been a real twist if the federation would discover that there's an entire race noone knew about except for the romulans. Shinzon, Scimitar... would all that be necessary? There could be such an interesting and deep story about federation principles, a first contact and diplomacy (Picard-style) and the whole TNG-cast would have given the opportunity to show their strong side instead of being turned into a pseudo-battlehardened staff.

Yeah they really did not need Shinzon and super ship for a good plot. The story really should have focused on discovering the Remans as Romulan slaves and the resulting moral dilemma of what to do about them. It would have been nice if these seemingly monstrous aliens were actually quite the opposite and Picard decided it was the right thing to do to help the Remans. Of all the games to tap into that potential story, it had to be Star Trek Online.

posted on September 26th, 2012, 9:55 pm

Of all the games to tap into that potential story, it had to be Star Trek Online.

I have to say, that when STO gets the writing right, it gets it very, very right. I also really like that they've tried to do something sensible with some of the prime-universe absurdities perpetrated by JJ (specifically the Hobus supernova). It's rare in any storytelling medium to see attempts at dealing with aftermaths.

posted on September 27th, 2012, 5:10 am

The whole Reman thing was just stupid to begin with. I have been wanting a movie with Romulans as the bad guys for along time and what do we get..........some made up race that was NEVER mentioned in any other series or movies. There were the two planets Romulus and Remus but it was never mentioned that "Oh by the way one of the oldest arch villains of the Federation appearing in every show just happens to have another race working for them that we never talked about and a clone of Picard will steal the ship full of slaves........take it and swallow it because you are Trek fans and will put up with anything". I am paraphrasing what they said but you get the point.

I finally get Romulan bad guys in JJs Star Trek but they aren't really Romulans and if that guy was so upset by the destruction of his world why didn't he just take his super advance ship and go warn the Romulus of the past and give them the new weapons technology to boot. He could have been the hero of Romulus and the Romulans would have had advanced technology. (This is assuming that in JJ Trek the Federation Future Time people don't exist) The whole plot of JJ Trek made no freaking sense whatsoever, but that is an aside.