Klingons

posted on October 23rd, 2010, 8:37 pm

I always thought that the Romulans were much more like the Russians (Generally because of all the covert ops and spying in general, but maybe thats a bit of a stereotype, but whatever). And I dunno what Klinks were

Well... this romulan/klingon-confusion is probably sourcing in the change of the races roles after TOS.

TOS-klingons reminded me of the russians on the asian half in some ways, but the political role itself wasn't russian to me. The klingons only were "the standard-villain" for some time.

In TNG, the klingons were allied with the federation so the "cold war" - part was given to the romulans then. Starting with "the neutral zone" and going on with all the romulan involvings throughout the series;

It was the romulans who were waiting for a provocation by Starfleet while always having ideas or plans to either disrupt the federation-klingon relationship (Redemption I+II) or to lead a federation ship into a situation where it would have to fire on a romulan vessel to make that a reason for starting a war.


However in TNG the diplomacy was the solution to everything but Borg-attacks.


On DS9, the klingons and pretty much every known race was worked out more (after Ira Stephen Behr joined the staff). The Klingons on DS9 pretty much reminded me of a mix between Vikings and medieval asian influence from here and there.


Star Trek 6 though was a big exception. I think the movie was so much going to be "the great goodbye" of the TOS-crew that they wanted to have as many real-political thoughts in it as they could have. For the cold-war-ending plot, it was thought out well and I really didn't find anything that would insult one side more or less than the other. I almost never found a way to consider klingons or romulans as insulting to any culture. Among both sides there have been several very honorable individuals, from the klingons around Organia on TOS to the romulan Commander Donatra in Nemesis.

posted on October 25th, 2010, 4:16 pm

TOS Klingons were the Soviet Union (communists), due to the Cold War era.

posted on October 30th, 2010, 4:28 pm

It is really hard to say who the Klingons are.  The TOS Klingons were I think a amalgamation of the US's enemies, the classic bad guys.  The TNG were warriors, though I felt like it got almost comical after a while, like they were so brutish and jockish I had a hard time believing that they invented warp drive. 

Star Trek VI was the happy balance of the two periods.  I mean come on General Chang was the quintessential master mind, a refined warrior bad guy.  I loved just hearing his speeches in Star Trek VI and in Klingon Academy.  I would have like to see them take war more serious instead of being a bunch of brutish drunks.

posted on October 30th, 2010, 5:23 pm

well even though the warriors we saw were brutish drunks, there were scientists and clever klinks in the background not flying around the galaxy fighting.

some klingons may be injured, or born with ailments, and not all of them commit suicide, so they became scientists etc.

they probably focus on weapons tech, and steal other tech from races they conquer. explaining how their weapons are good but lack other things.

it's obvious you can't run a society on warriors. its possible a lot of the races they conquer serve as slave labour for non warrior stuff.

posted on October 30th, 2010, 6:03 pm

If you go by novels, they do use labour from conquered worlds. Even below decks on their ships.

posted on October 30th, 2010, 6:08 pm

If you go by novels, they do use labour from conquered worlds. Even below decks on their ships.

on the larger ships that is perfectly plausible, canon should have shown it, would have made very good sense, use conquered idiots for non warrior stuff so klingons can focus on fighting and pushing the limits of inebriation.

posted on October 30th, 2010, 9:01 pm

Very interesting that topic. I agree with most of what was said so far. If you compare it to today's Star Trek where are those links there? Maybe that's the stuff that is missing today. I think that sort of story writing what Gene did in the first place was a key element why Star Trek became so successful. Real topics (like Cold War) that are Nr. 1 topic in our society, and which is then somehow wrapped into a story where you don't see the actual reality in is a very good concept. Because it speaks into our subconsciousness and creates tension.

posted on October 31st, 2010, 12:25 am

Yeah but even if they do use conquered peoples to do all the technical work they still needed ships to get at those people in the first place, unless the Klingons put rockets on their backs and fired themselves at the nearest planets???

The only thing I can think of is that the Klingon stupidity is a byproduct of a declining empire, gone soft since hostilities ended with the Federation.  Because again STVI Klingons were pretty sharp, ie Gen Chang, great warrior, Chancellor Gorkon great statesman.  they kind of mention that things are in decline throughout the TNG, hence they clone Kahless.  This in a way might be Star Trek addressing the economic decline that hit the Russians after the end of the cold war.  Even the Federation seems to have been pretty lack-lust in ship construction, I mean yeah they still had their flagships but look at the amount of old ships in service in the 24th century, all of which get crushed by the Borg.

[Tyler]

posted on October 31st, 2010, 12:31 am

Last edited by Tyler on October 31st, 2010, 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

I prefer the Enterprise version, where they once had a normal culture until honor and the Warriors became the dominant focus. It wasn't until TNG-era that the other jobs regained some degree of respect.

How does using a reliable fleet of old but functional designs (that work) imply your production is lacking in modern times? The fact that their older ships still work well enough for use in large numbers says nothing about the modern production, only that they know how to design good ships.

posted on October 31st, 2010, 3:03 am

It is interesting that the weapon makers dont have as much or more honor than the ones who wield the weapon.

posted on October 31st, 2010, 9:41 am

It's pretty common for the 'little people' behind the scenes to be forgotten. How many people talk about the Air Force and think of something other than planes and pilots?

posted on November 4th, 2010, 1:55 am

I don't know about English-speaking world, but here in Russia vast majority of fans think that creating Klingons and spending so much efforts to this race was a mistake on behalf of Star Trek's creators. Frankly, I can not name a single person in Russia who would enjoy "Klingon" episodes. So I wonder, what is the mainstream opinion about Klingons in the West? Do western fans like Klingons, do they learn their language etc.?

Lol, Klingons represent your country a few decades ago.

posted on November 11th, 2010, 5:52 pm

I would say that Klingons only had similarities with the Soviet Union in terms of being the enemy of the western world. Only in Star Trek 6 is an obvious allegory. I think Pavel Chekov represents Russia in Star Trek  .
In fact the Federation seems to be more like what the Soviet Union wanted to be.

If you compare it to today's Star Trek where are those links there? Maybe that's the stuff that is missing today. I think that sort of story writing what Gene did in the first place was a key element why Star Trek became so successful. Real topics (like Cold War) that are Nr. 1 topic in our society, and which is then somehow wrapped into a story where you don't see the actual reality in is a very good concept. Because it speaks into our subconsciousness and creates tension.

Well, if you refer to ST XI I agree with you, otherwise we still got nice allegories even in 4th season of Enterprise. The whole Vulcan story about that evil president bombing some religious people hiding in the mountains and saying they got Xindi weapons of mass destruction seems to me an obvious allegory.

posted on November 11th, 2010, 7:21 pm

Klingons remind me more of mythical Norse society and not that of the Soviet Union. Or as Kirk put it "they're animals." I honestly find it very hard to believe a society like the Klingons even developed space travel and warp drive. I'm sure there are the random genius Klingons among their race but they are so overpopulated by "bloodthirsty warriors" that I just have a hard time seeing them putting down their batleths and organizing to manufacture a rocket to go into space. If anything the Borg are more communist then the Klingons ever were... 

As you might have noticed I do not care for the Klingons much. Breen are my favorite. 

[Tyler]

posted on November 11th, 2010, 7:28 pm

Last edited by Tyler on November 11th, 2010, 7:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Klingons back then more more like Humans than the well known modern Klingons, bloodthirsty but not warriors. They were smarter and more cunning than Kirks (and the Federations) oddly racist opinion of them implied.

Though if they were stupid the whole time, they could have got it the Terran way...